[kimmar]

Does anyone know of any freeverse titles that tell a story in dual POV? I'm not looking for multiple povs here, just two.
Kim

[Charis]

I have to admit, Kelly, I've tried numerous times to get into You Remind Me of You and just can't. I can understand the beginning mirroring disjointed thoughts of someone in the MC's situation but I couldn't make myself follow it. It was similar to my reaction to Virginia Euwer Wolf - I can appreciate the effort it took to write but I don't want to have to FORCE myself to read it. So if eveyone else really wants to read that one, I'll just wait for the next book. I'm also not a good group decision maker so (although, obviously, I have no problems with using veto power.  ) so let's hear from more of you.

 :

[kellyr]

With that ringing un-endorsement, I change my mind.  Anything but You Remind Me of You.

[WG]

I looked up just about all of these books. None appear to be just 2 povs. Several are multiple pov. I vote for Paul J.'s Stardust Otel or Shakespeare Bats Clean Up. No particular reason. The first is by someone who has been publishing freeverse the longest. Either that or let's learn from a master & do one of Hesse's. Witness is multiple pov.  Kim, are we writing the same book? I also want just 2 characters.

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

Does anyone know of any freeverse titles that tell a story in dual POV? I'm not looking for multiple povs here, just two.
Kim

Mine does!
Okay, I know you read it and are looking for a real book. I don't know one off hand.

Kellyr - as I said I never know what I can get and what I can get you've all probably already read so someone else pick a book and I'll try to find it. Maybe even order it online.

Alma

[kimmar]

Excuse me, Alma, but just because your dual pov book isn't pubbed yet (and might I add that it hasn't even been SUBBED yet ) doesn't mean it isn't a real book! But, yes, I'm looking for titles I haven't yet read.

Okay, folks are going mum here on titles. I have Out Of The Dust fresh in my mind, and read Witness yesterday. So why don't we start with Hesse? I don't care which one, but if folks don't voice an opinion on which one to start with by tomorrow, I'm picking! (Unless anyone has other ideas, lol)
Kim

[Charis]

Mish, I don't mind doing one that I've already read, it'll help me gather my thoughts and "analysis" faster. Kim, I think Hesse is a good idea and I surely wouldn't mind doing either Dust or Aleutian Sparrow or Witness. Chime in, folks. One ringy dingy....two...

[tgseale]

I can order anything from the library and have it shortly, but I already have a copy of OOTD here somewhere.  Of course, it was so powerful for me for personal reasons that I said I didn't know if I could read it again...  I will, though.  For you guys...anything.
Make your pick, Kim.

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

I have Out of the Dust. We can discuss that.

 BTW, Kimmar,

My dual point of view ms has been with my editor since September! (Hit me back - I dare ya!)

Alma

[Charis]

Okay, I'll get it out of the library this weekend.  :

[kellyr]

Sounds like that's an official pick.  I'll get it out of the library this weekend also.

[tgseale]

I read YOU REMIND ME OF YOU today.  I have to agree about it being a bit disjointed, not just at first but throughout.  It was a bit hard to follow and somewhat repetitive/lagging? about 3/4 way through, but still a good read, I thought.  I'll read it again before I return it.
tg

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

It seems you guys are all kicking my butt with the amount of freeverse you're reading. I don't live in a huge town and really have to drive an 30 to 40 minutes before I can get to a bookstore big enough to carry freeverse. It's really not that far but if we don't have to go to that city we don't bother.

I suppose I should be reading more, considering I've only read approximately seven freeverse novels, but I'm wondering how many of you are using reading freeverse as a stall tactic for writing it. I mean I haven't read a whole lot but I seem to be doing alright in writing it. Maybe I've just been lucky to find my voice and style early on. Or maybe it's because when I started writing it the only books I could find were Out of the Dust and Make Lemonade. Sones' books came after or about the same time I wrote mine.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be reading it. You should. Before you can write it properly you might have to read it, and I think this thread is a great way to discuss it and discuss the different ways people write it.

Also it's a great way to learn about the different styles other writers have. I think my style is somewhere inbetween Sonya Sones and Virginia Euwer Wolff (I'm not comparing the quality of my writing to either of them just the style) - sometimes my poems are 'real' poems like Sones and sometimes they are more like prose split up funny like Virginia EW.

Every freeverse writer has to have their own style to fill the niche in the market, so what I'm saying is that is alright to analyze the writing and style but if you try to copy it why would an editor choose your book over one written by the writer you're copying? Story would count of course, your story has to be different as well as your style.

I think if you find your own style, find your own plot, write the best story you can write, and work on perfecting it, you'll do fine no matter if you've read sixty freeverse books or ten. BUT I am not suggesting NOT to keep reading freeverse and seeing what is out there, or seeing how other writers write it. That would just be stupid. I'm just suggesting that you don't use it as a way to procrastinate writing your OWN novel. 

AJ

[kellyr]

Alma:  I have, at this point in time, read absolutely zero free verse.  I just wanted someone to read and discuss the genre with.  Maybe I'll like it and decide to tackle it some time, maybe not.  I think reading as much writing in the area in which I'd like to work counts as writing work, whether I decide to write free verse or not.  For me, it's just part of paying attention to what's selling in the market, and to what topics or ideas or ways of writing are resonating with young readers.  In some ways, all reading is an act of procrastinating about writing, and in others, it's essential research.  But boy, do I wish you could show up at my house a few times a week and kick me in the butt about not procrastinating when I'm playing Spider Solitaire or trying to figure out how to get into the door to JK Rowling's office on her website! 

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

I just want to clear up that I think this thread is wonderful! You should be reading and discussing books as writers. And I'll be right her discussing them with you all. To be a really good writer you have to read books written by good writers. They'll make you strive to be better. BUT  to be a good writer you also have to WRITE. Stop procrastinating and just do it.

Alma

[kimmar]

Alma wrote: "BUT  to be a good writer you also have to WRITE. Stop procrastinating and just do it."

Hey Alma! You talkin' to me? You talkin' to ME??? I think you might be, lol, and as usual you say exactly what I need to hear {{}}.

Still reading but writing too,
Kim

[tgseale]

I've read probably as few as you have, Alma.  I didn't even know I liked them as much until I read one of yours!  And now look at me...trying to imitate...the sincerest form of flattery.  :  :z:  I think, for me, I just didn't realize this form was even out there until a year or so ago.  I have notebooks and notebooks full of raw, angsty (melodramatic) freeverse from my teenage years.  I couldn't believe something like this was even considered publishable.  I'm fascinated with it and love that I can read an entire novel in an hour or two.  I would have loved a novel so succinct when I was in high school. 

I'll keep checking them out and reading them, because I like to see how other writers handle the line breaks, especially.  I know there are no hard and fast rules, but it is interesting to compare.  I wrote 800 words last night after finishing the book.

You're talented and confident in your own abilities, which I admire more than you know.  I tend to get caught up in the "OMG I've never written anything like this before.  This is so bad.  This is really bad" trap.
tg

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

Kimmar, Yes I was talking to you. How'd you ever pick that up?  :n
Actually, I know it's a trap a lot of writers get into. So many worry about perfecting the form and style in their first drafts using other writers as an example, but honestly, I don't think there is a 'true form' in freeverse. Isn't that why it's called 'free'? And first drafts are used to get the story out. Perfect it later.

Mostly, you just have to write from the heart . I think you need to put the line breaks where you feel they will leave the most power for the reader. I wish Sonya Sones or a 'real' freeverse writer was here to tell us for sure.
Tanya, I'm flattered. Though I feel you have your own personal style and it's great.

AJ

[kimmar]

Speaking of Sones, for those of you who don't know, she'll be at the YA Cafe Tuesday night starting at 8pm eastern time, talking about novels in verse. I can't wait!
Here's the cafe link:

http://ourworld.cs.com/YAAuthorsCafe/

Kim

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

It starts at 8:00? I thought it was 8:30. Darn it. I work Tuesday night until 9pm. By the time I get home it'll be over.   :

Cough Cough,
Glass shards are
raking
along my throat.
My vision is
blurred,
A hammer
is pounding
inside
my brain
so hard
it will soon
explode.
My forehead
burns
at my touch,
like hot pavement
in the summer.
But it's winter,
so I think
I'm getting
sick.

Alma (who knows that majorly sucks )

[Charis]

Mish/Alma/AJ, I started writing my freeverse novel not realizing it WAS one. Until I subbed the first two chapters to my crit group and a few friends...and started getting people sending me links to freeverse articles and clips about editors saying they are open to fiction poetry/freeverse novels. I related a bit to Viginia E-W in the CWIM article when she said she wasn't a poet; it wasn't something I was striving for, it was the label others put on my writing. One thing I've learned over the years is that I'm not really capable of "mimic" writing, my own personal wierdness and voice bursts through every time! Just can't seem to tame it, and I'm glad...I've never had anyone tell me I lack voice so I really don't feel the need to go find anyone else's. Now is a good time for me to read and "analyze" other n-i-v because I'm working on a "regular" ya at the moment and so the free verse is currently mostly on the back burner, although I have been doing a "poem" or two per week lately.

But I do fight a rabid inner editor and really appreciate the reminder of getting the story out and perfecting later. That is ALWAYS my struggle and I write like  :, though it's starting to get a bit "looser" these days...and writing free verse helped with that progress.

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

Charis,

I'm glad your inner voice comes screaming through too. It's always better when it does that. Now is a good time for me to immerse myself in freeverse reading as well for the same reason. I'm working on a prose novel.
About my name changes, I'm still not sure if I'm going to publish under Alma or AJ. My editor doesn't feel it's necessary to publish under AJ even though my mc is a boy because she thinks most everyone is still buying JK Rowlings book even though they now know she's female (though she did think AJ had a nice ring to it). However, if my series for younger boys is published my new editor may feel differently. I may end up publishing under both names. Plus if I'm writing a lot or emailing a lot AJ is easier to sign.

Alma/AJ/Mish

[Tammi Posts: 1,342 Status: Offline WWW]

I have yet to attempt a free verse book, but I really enjoy reading them.  Yesterday, I read Shakespeare Bats Cleanup  by Ron Koertgelast.  The last poem has 2 great stanzas that demonstrate to me the power of the free verse novel.

These stanzas are from a poem titled Poem for Poetry.

I wouldn't know you like I do now.  I would
have missed the way you pour down the
middle of the page like a river compared
to your pal, Prose, who takes up all
the room like a fat kid on the school bus.

You were perfect for that, Poetry.
Sure, I guess I could have spilled my guts
all over the page, but you made me want
to pour things out a little more carefully.
And into prettier containers, if you know
what I mean.

[Tammi Posts: 1,342 Status: Offline WWW]

Oops.  The author's name is Ron Koertge.

[Charis]

Alma, so I gotta know...what does the J stand for??  :
The whole author-gender-marketing thing is interesting, watching it affect writers in different ways.

[AlmaFullerton Posts: 665 Status: Offline Exercise your mind- Read WWW]

The J stands for Jane, AJ is a well known boys name Andrew James. Actually when I was small I was called Janie but my parents had to start calling me by my first name because I played with the boy next door named Jamie. So when either of us were called for supper both would come.

Alma (now you have a little story on me for when I become rich and famous - )

[Charis]

 : That's me taking down your story for posterity, Alma. I know lots of AJ's and many are juniors...Aaron, Jr., Allen, Jr, Arthur, Jr., etc. Alma, Jr....has a nice ring to it. (just realized we need a ducking smilie)

[kellyr]

and don't forget all those Anthony Josephs!

[WG]

So I re-read "Out of the Dust" & I'm fixin' to discuss it!

Keeping in mind the question we raised before about what drives the story, I came up with some new insights. Before I thought about key moments in the plot, which is dramatic. Almost melodramatic.  This time I really noticed all the secondary characters and the setting. There is a ton of detail, presented very matter-of-fact, as Billie Jo perceives it. The Wonder Bread door at Mr. Hardly's grocery; song titles; apple pandowdy; Joe de la Flor; "Jake on the banjo" etc. etc. All of these people, some of whom make a single appearance and are just there as part of the scenery. The sum of all these bits is a very believable backdrop, without which the plot would not advance. And then the brilliant bits of dialogue ("Chocolate milk for dinner, aren't we in clover!") take us simultaneously further into & out of Billie Jo's head & give us a real sense of her world. Finally, I remember on my first read noticing that Billie Jo's growing independence was an important theme. But this time around I concluded that it really is THE central story. All the stuff that happens to her get filtered through that plot-line, which makes sense given that the character is 15.

[kimmar]

I agree WG! I really think Hesse is a master at adding small details that translate, as a whole, into well-designed settings. And she presents minor characters in a way that adds to the story but doesn't leave the reader with too many extraneous people to worry about. Any one else have any thoughts to add?
Kim