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Objections to Magic/Fantasy elements

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Pickles

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Lenzi, I understand what you're saying.

I appreciate everyone's input, including those who have PMed and I haven't responded to yet....getting there.

This conversation has helped me shape my stories as well as the role my faith plays in them. I do consider my writing ability a gift from God, and do not wish to dishonor Him in the way that I use it. I would like my stories to be accessible to as many children as possible. I wanted to avoid any obvious mine fields.

When I was asked if Epiphany was a Jewish custom, I realized I had moved into foreign territory. I've done a lot of examining of my own beliefs and customs, because I'm often caught in "duh?" spots .
when people ask.

I realize this has been a sticky topic, and I appreciate everyone's help.
#61 - May 30, 2007, 02:55 PM

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It is fascinating, isn't it?  But it certainly reminds me of why I write 'straight' fantasy (in other worlds) rather than trying to deal with all this :)  I have too many relatives on all sides of the fence to not insult someone (sigh).  but I've loved reading and pondering everything here!
#62 - May 30, 2007, 03:08 PM
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Pickles

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We attended a Ukrainian Orthodox Church when we lived in Florida. And my husband first became interested in Eastern Orthodox when he lived in OKC about 18 years ago. Yep, and I had people ask me if the Orthodox were Christians. Nice to hear from you Lee. We should talk. :)
#63 - May 30, 2007, 06:07 PM

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About 25 years ago, my parents and I became involved with a small but growing fundamentalist congretation that became more and more controlling of what it's members should read, think, etc.  Of course the usual prohibitions against magical references in literature and entertainment choices were in place.  Secular holidays such as Halloween and even New Year's Eve were replaced with Halelujah parties.  Children's literature prohibitions of course included fairy tales, the works of Judy Blume, and extended even to Cricket Magazine.  Wearing glasses, not speaking in tongues, and reading the wrong materials were all signs of lack of faith.  It became a very scary, cultlike experience.  At one point my family as well as several others abruptly pulled away.  I am now very wary of those who would transfer their own rules onto others in matters where there is no explicit scriptural insturction.  One's faith walk is a very personal thing, and the committments one makes to it are individual and personal.  If a person feels they dishonor their faith by reading Harry Potter, then so be it, but they can not make that decision for others.  I have strong objections to anyone attempting to redefine Christianity in an exclusionary way that sets themselves apart from the mainstream and defines faith in the terms of their own narrow perspective.
#64 - May 31, 2007, 10:33 AM

Pickles

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Interesting.

I find that objections to magic seem to cross denominational lines.  And that even denominational lines are fuzzy.

It's been very enlightening and interesting to get so many different perspectives on this issue.

#65 - May 31, 2007, 02:03 PM

Amy Spitzley

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Wow...wow. Just wow. I don't know anything about this at all. I figure if people don't want to read my books then they won't. And probably many people won't. (grin)
But what really made me chime in may be more tangental than you like, Kay! My apologies if that's true. You already know what I'm like from other boards! (hee-hee)
1846, they really thought WEARING GLASSES was a sign of lack of faith?! I wouldn't know where the light was coming from if I ever DID see the light (which looks rather unlikely) if I didn't have mine on! I have about a six-inch range of vision without them! Good grief. That, in my opinion, is going way too far. It's boggling my mind!
And back on topic...I like the idea of magic. My mother, a former nun, knew a woman who was apparently a "white witch," or Wiccan. They seemed to get along pretty well. (grin) I'm not Christian. I doubt I ever will be, BUT I have no objection to other people going that route. My favorite quote on this matter is "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Nothing like good old Rush. (grin) So I figure as far as books are concerned, I choose to write mine my way. And other people can choose to pick on me or whatever. The worst that'll happen is I might take it too personally and start crying or something. (grin)
Kay, do your thing. And if all else fails...move to another state! (hee-hee) Kidding, I'm kidding...

AMY
#66 - June 02, 2007, 06:23 PM

Pickles

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Hi Amy.....

I'm not trying to please my neighbors.....it's more general than that....having moved into a different cultural climate I'm more aware of differences.

Tired...not making sense....

Yes...I'll be in another state by the time I have another book come out.
#67 - June 02, 2007, 07:13 PM

Pickles

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The original question or at least the intent of it was:

If you object to magic/fantasy in children's lit on a religious basis, what do you base this on? where do you draw the line?

As I've said before this has helped me define my own parameters better.
#68 - June 02, 2007, 07:15 PM

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Interesting.

I find that objections to magic seem to cross denominational lines.  And that even denominational lines are fuzzy.

Yes. Dress your children as the Gryffindor Quidditch team for Halloween and bring them to a B&N story hour trick or treat in South Carolina. Watch people of various churches back away slowly, whispering to each other about the satantism in Harry Potter. Bring your same kids in the same costumes to a church-sponsored trunk or treat a few hours later. See four separate families dressed up in Harry Potter themes. All of these people are Christians. Scratch your head and wonder at the very, very different ways the human mind can intepret the same exact thing.
#69 - June 02, 2007, 11:37 PM
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 05:08 AM by olmue »

Pickles

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LOL!

Yep.

I think that story nails it for sure.

Well, okay so there's no "formula" here, but it's helped me understand my own position better.
#70 - June 04, 2007, 08:41 PM

gretchenlaskas

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Pickles,

I'm another who grew up in a fundamentalist household, and I can say with some certainty that there are no rules.  My parents wouldn't let us watch THE FACTS OF LIFE because of the title but our pastor's children could watch THE LOVE BOAT.  Books have weird individual standards like that too.  Both C.S. Lewis and Madeleine L'Engle have been routinely derided in certain circles, despite being both Christian and thoughtful.  There will ALWAYS be someone who objects, not because of something that you do in particular, but because they have based their life on being "objective."

The good news is, given that you live in a conservative Christian community, you might be surprised how many people will support you should anything ever come to pass.  And ten bucks says you won't be able to guarantee who those people will be right now!

Good luck,
Gretchen
#71 - June 06, 2007, 06:35 AM

Pickles

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Thanks Gretchen.

Well, I probably won't be living here when and if the books come out. They are still in progress, and we will be moving again in two years, probably. But living here has given me insight into other beliefs, and I wanted to reach these kids without offending them. But I see...there are no rules, not even vague, generally fuzzy ones.

But I appreciate everyone's input.

#72 - June 06, 2007, 08:01 AM

Pickles

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I'll admit that my little neck of the woods is unique for a variety of reasons, and it's not representative of the greater city or even other parts of the state. It has its own personality just like other sections of the city.

I had mentioned this before, and thanks Lee for bringing it up.  When I refer to my community, I'm not talking about the entire city or state.

#73 - June 06, 2007, 06:31 PM

HB

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Ok, so this is a little off topic for Pickles' purposes but for anyone else reading this thread wondering what types of religious landmines they might accidentally stumble across here goes:

Martial arts and yoga are considered innappropriate for Christians in some circles because they originally came out of Eastern religions. I have a character who does yoga in one of my stories. I guess she wouldn't go over well in Pickles' community. And my kickboxing video makes me a sinner.  :devil:

You also can't escape trouble by writing non-fiction. And I don't just mean writing about evolution. I was doing research for an article on caves I wrote a few years ago. Turns out stalagtites cause big controversy. Can't have 100,000 year old pointy rocks on a 6000 year old planet. Same issues with the Grand Canyon.

But like others have said on this thread, no matter what you write, you're going to tick someone off, so all you can do is write the stories that are in your heart.

#74 - June 10, 2007, 07:50 AM

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Lenzi, I understand what you're saying.

I appreciate everyone's input, including those who have PMed and I haven't responded to yet....getting there.

This conversation has helped me shape my stories as well as the role my faith plays in them. I do consider my writing ability a gift from God, and do not wish to dishonor Him in the way that I use it. I would like my stories to be accessible to as many children as possible. I wanted to avoid any obvious mine fields.

When I was asked if Epiphany was a Jewish custom, I realized I had moved into foreign territory. I've done a lot of examining of my own beliefs and customs, because I'm often caught in "duh?" spots .
when people ask.

I realize this has been a sticky topic, and I appreciate everyone's help.

Well, here's my 2 cents, (laugh) and I wasn't even going to offer that much, but I couldn't resist. After writing for the Christian Booksellers's Association I found out that I could not please them enough. After writing for the ABA I found that my book was not acceptable to them as well. In the end, I realize I wrote that book for God, for my daughter, for me, and for any child who's parents will allow them to read it -- some Christian, some not. It's controversial within both groups which I find laughable. It's such a simple story, I just don't understand why it could cause such an uproar in certain circles. For instance, I shared the book with an online Lyme Disease community because one of the main characters has Lyme Disease and was misdiagnosed as having ADHD. This DOES happen. I've researched it, I also have Lyme. But because the thread throughout the book was also about a little girl who had to learn her bible verse or she wouldn't be allowed to sing (her favorite thing to do) at her church cantata people were offended. Because, the book contained the Bible verse. In laymen's terms the bible verse really says, "Treat others the way you'd want to be treated, the way God would want you to" which I would think any parent would want their child to learn. No matter what God they serve. But, to my amazement a simple, silly, sweet, informational, fiction book caused me more problems to get published and read. But those who finally read it saw it was no threat to any religion.

So in essence, write what you want to write for the reasons you need to write it or NOT. ;D
#75 - June 10, 2007, 08:48 AM
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 08:55 AM by W. L. Decker »
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We love the Harry Potter series in our home, but my husb's bro & wife decided against them for their family, although they sent us the Focus on the Family CDs of the Narnia series and ADORE the Shrek series. And my dearest Christian friend that I have in town loves the Narnia series and Lord of Rings, but had a problem with Harry Potter (which she & her husb. couldn't bring themselves to read).

So, Pickles, I would say there ARE basic rules for fantasy that is accepted the majority. MOST Christians don't have any problem (as pointed out earlier) with fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel, or Jack and the Beanstalk, or Cinderella or the Wizard of Oz, not to mention the Narnia series. If you make transform things and people by magic (like a pumpkin and mice into a coach and coachmen), or take people to magical places like the Munchkinland and Oz, you're in familiar fairy tale territory.

There are two major controversies with Harry Potter. One is that Harry Potter challenges/defies authority, which is a topic I'm not going to pursue in this thread. The other is that Harry Potter and his peers are being taught witchcraft. Even though people understand that the witchcraft is make-believe, they don't like the premise that it's ACCEPTABLE to be taught a form of witchcraft.

The reason for this is that the Bible forbids witchcraft and sorcery.

IMHO this is intended to keep people away from (1) hocus-pocus idiocy to exploit the gullible, much like so-called psychics making a quick buck today (2) mind-altering substances or drugs and (3) any kind of paranormal activity linked to demons or evil. In Harry Potter, the witchcraft is useful and not intended to exploit the gullible; people don't get high on drugs; students are taught DEFENSE against the dark arts (evil). So, in my view, the magic taught in Hogwarts is NOT at all like the sorcery that is condemned in the Bible. 

King Saul was severely punished for seeing a witch to conjure up the dead prophet Samuel for his advice. Conjuring a dead spirit was wucjed, but KEEP IN MIND, that when Jesus conversed with Elijah and Moses (what we call the Transfiguration) that this supernatural event was considered blessed and divine.

I take a lot of inspiration from Madeleine L'Engle as in the book "Madeleine L'Engel: Herself". She loves that the Bible mentions unicorns and sea monsters, and records visions of fantastical creatures like dragons and winged creatures. So she puts them into her stories. She has offended some people for being too religious and others for her treatment of fantasy. But since the Bible is full of stories of the supernatural (not just angels and demons), why shouldn't we write about them?   
 
#76 - June 10, 2007, 10:24 AM

No, I don't think witches are connected with Satanism. Although, there are those who will say anything that is NOT Christian, IS Satanic. As I understand Wicca is a pagan, Earth religion that does not recongize the Christian concept of Satan.

I'm sure somebody around here knows more about it.


Just reading thru this thread--interesting discussion, btw--and realized no one replied to the Wiccan remark.  Wicca is NOT at all like Satanism.  I have a number of Wiccan friends *pauses* actually, most of my closest friends are some variety of pagan (as am I).   The best way I can explain Wicca is that it feels a bit like some of the Eastern faiths--think Taoism's peacefulness and acceptance, think Hinduism's sense of karma, and actually, think New Testament Christianity's statement of not judging.  Wicca is very accepting, peace-based, & life affirming.  It doesn't uphold a specific gender or class over others. It strives for respectful interaction with the earth and all the earth's inhabitants.

The persona of Satan has iconographic similarities with the Horned Man (whose iconography along with some Greco-Roman images like Pan & Satyrs, arguably, were imported into Satan's pictoral representation by early artists).   But iconography and creed are far apart.  Wicca is not all akin to Satanism. Satanism--which is a relatively "new" religion all things considered--is about selfish ideals.  Wicca (and most so-called pagan faiths) are old and about as polar opposite of Satanism as it can get.

 
#77 - June 10, 2007, 12:58 PM

Amy Spitzley

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YOGA is bad? Ai-yi-yi. That's insane. I mean, to me, that's insane. Of course I wouldn't want to offend anyone. (hee-hee)
And Melisssa--great definition. You go, girl! (grin)
AMY
#78 - June 10, 2007, 04:42 PM

KristyO

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Pickles -

I've heard it explained that having the good guys do magic is not okay - while having the bad guys do magic is more acceptable.   Apparently one of the big objections to HP is that the non-magical people in the first book are portrayed as bad.  I actually heard someone say that the books were about an ungrateful child who was taken in by an aunt and uncle who tried to protect him from becoming involved in witchcraft.  Think they read the book?  :) 

Kristy
#79 - June 11, 2007, 06:08 AM

mswatkins

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This is an interesting topic, seeing as I enjoy fantasy and am a Christian as well. 

Personally I  don't care.  It's a book, it's a story, but some folks are a bit nutso about it.  Harry Potter is the big one right now and has been for a while.  Many conservative Christians don't like it becaue it's openly displaying witchcraft and the Bible speaks strongly against this.  People brewing things for bringing back the dead (or spirits, actually), or cursing each other to death or unbearable pain...  It seems to scare a lot of folks who believe it's making witchcraft too appealing to children, who may want to try it.

Then you have the fantasy series Chronicles of Narnia, where Aslan is God, or a God like being, and Christians love this  fantasy series.  It's in Christian bookstores all over the country.  This has loads of magic in it, all performed by Aslan himself.

Go figure.  I just ignore them and write and read what I want. 
#80 - June 11, 2007, 07:14 AM

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Pickles, I'm coming late to this, but I'll share some scattered thoughts.

First, for context, I'm a believing, active Christian, raised (baptized and confirmed) Lutheran (LCA) (waves hello), involved with InterVarsity, a fairly conservative college group, attended an American Baptist Church for a few years, then Episcopal, and now I'm Roman Catholic. I don't believe in not reading books because of content, or advising others to do so, but I understand where some very conservative folks are coming from.

I love well-written fantasy. One of the many reasons I love fantasy is that it often takes me out of this world to see things in a different light. Some of my favorite fantasy gives me a glimpse of heaven, or more like a feeling of it. LOTR and Narnia would be high on that list. In Lewis' nonfiction, he talks about this - that the Christian story is like your favorite story, except it's true. The 3rd LOTR movie inserted an extra scene, where Gandalf is talking to Pippin, telling him about the far country, and I think it fits with the underlying premise, tone, feeling, of the books. They have an underlying world-view that is consistent with Christianity.

That's one of the things I look for, the worldview. Pullman's trilogy does not have this. In fact, he's openly antagonistic to Christianity, and even though I love the books in some ways, and let my then-9-yo read them (and we discussed them), they just make me spitting mad to read, so I don't re-read them, as I normally would a favorite book.

Books that are set in this world are much more problematic when it comes to dealing with fantasy/Christianity. Harry Potter skirts the issue entirely. Christmas is there, but it's entirely secular. I'm okay with that. But really HP has an underlying worldview that is consistent with Christianity, which is why MOST Christians are fine with them. There is good and evil. People have to decide which side they're on. There is Truth. HP is in no way a relativistic - i.e., current secular thinking - book; she sets her worldview as being opposed to Voldemort's (which is straight out of Nietzsche, where he says something in Book 1 like  - there is no good or evil, only power and those who aren't afraid to use it). The "witchcraft" in HP bothers me not one whit; it doesn't even feel like witchcraft. In the context of the book, it certainly is not evil or anywhere allied with that; it is simply a tool.

I get bugged when a fantasy that is set in this world, or partly so, references Christianity in a dismissive way (or worse). Pullman's among the worst. Susan Cooper's series is mostly fine with me, but in one place she mentions a priest who is clueless about the real powers in this world, or something like that. Fly By Night, which I like very much for various reasons, is also, in places, dismissive of faith in general (I started a thread on that if you want to see more of my thoughts there). Even A Wrinkle in Time, which I love for lots of reasons - and I like other stuff by L'Engle, irritates me a bit because at one point she places Jesus as equivalent to other thinkers.

One recent book that I think handles this whole question very well is Wizard Heir by Cinda Chima. She has all kinds of magic elements, wizards, etc. placed in this world. She mostly sidesteps the religion question, but she does a couple of things I like. She mentions religion 4 times (I think). She mentions that the mc, Seph attended mass with his foster mother growing up (who is seen as a good person). The foster mother is devout, but won't let the priest do an exorcism when things happen around Seph that are, um, strange.  It mentions the mc finding comfort in Latin masses. It has a brief exchange between 2 characters, where it states clearly that the whole wizard thing is NOT a religion, and it's compatible with Catholocism or other religions. And at the very end, it mentions the mc and others attending Christmas Mass. So she just very subtlely injects a neutral to positive view of religion and makes it clear that the magic in the book isn't religion, and is not a substitute for it. Simple.

On a different note, I agree with Jen that there are all kinds of stuff I would read, but not necessarily that I would write. I think as writers we have to tell the truth. That's a tricky statement. How do you write a book set in this world, that involves fantasy elements, which by their nature deal with the nature of reality, truth, things not seen, etc. and not deal with religion? If you're a person of faith, that is. I love, love, love HP, but I don't think I could refer to Christmas in a completely secular way, because that's denying truth. On the other hand, I'm not trying to write a Christian fantasy.
#81 - June 11, 2007, 09:32 AM
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Forgive me for wandering further afield with this discussion, but I find Pullman's whole approach to religion to be fascinating. Most people who object to Christianity don't actually have a problem with God (other than to think God isn't real and the notion of a supreme being is silly) -- for most, the objection to Christianity has to do with the behavior of those professing to be Christians. So, the problem is inherently in people -- to most. Many times it boils down to abuse of power and that a lot of power in the hands of people is inherently dangerous.

Pullman, on the other hand, doesn't have a problem with power or even people holding power -- he actually has a problem with the whole concept of God. Pullman's work reflects a view that the construct of God or Higher Power is inherently evil and dangerous. So the problem isn't people, it's God. That means he doesn't JUST dislike Christianity, but would have a similar feeling about any diety based religion. He mostly uses Christianity as the metaphor because he knows more about it than he does...say Islam or any other diety based religion.  Pullman doesn't appear to have a problem with the existance of the supernatural, as long as it's in service to humans, which he appears to see as equal (albeit different) than any supernatural creatures because the power of humans is in will.

Anyway...that really has nothing to do with how Christians feel about fantasy, since Pullman would turn purple and pop a vein to be called a Christian...but I just wanted to say it.
#82 - June 12, 2007, 09:03 AM
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Kristy O. - The objection to H.P. b/c of its "bad" portrayal of muggles who tried to keep him from witchcraft is a new one on me. I think good characters CAN use magic, but they generally use it for the benefit of others, e.g. Glinda the Good Witch of Oz and the Fairy Godmother of Cinderella. Bad characters tend to use magic for their own selfish ends.

Melissa - I know zip about Wicca; thanks for enlightening me.

I admit there's several other things on this thread I'm not acquainted with. I've never watched Charmed or Buffy; never read Pullman's trilogy (yet). I read the first few pages and realized it was going to be a long journey, so I haven't started. Bear in mind that I struggled to finish Inkheart! Right now I'm in the middle of Princess Academy by Shannon Hale. Airborn by K. Oppel is next on my list.

Cynthia - you asked how do you write a book about fantasy elements in this world and deal/not deal with the religious aspects of it? Good question and one I've thought a lot about too. Remember, unless you are strictly dealing with paranormal entities that you believe are real and active in-this-world (e.g. angels), you are actually creating a parallel world. This is a world that is looks like our real one except that it also includes your special magical entities and powers. So you can decide the things that would still be significant in your parallel world. The Green Knowe series I read and loved as a child, set in England, has the M.C., for example, going to Christmas mass and seeing the statue St. Christopher come to life to attend it. That scene fit in seamlessly with the world that L.M. Boston created, and I think that's the key. Whatever religious and spiritual elements you add should fit your world and fit the characters. I haven't read the book you mentioned, Wizard Heir, but I'm intrigued.

I like what you had to say about a world view. I know what you mean. Because I attended the recent SCBWI conference in New England with Bruce Coville as speaker, I read several Coville books. The ending for his "Nina Tanleven" ghost mystery trilogy, The Ghost in the Big Brass Bed concerns a ghost, a gifted painter, who is tormented from his memories of WWI. When he is reunited with his loved ones, he is at last able to add the scenes of a "place of peace" to complete his mural of mainly bloody battle scenes. The book then goes on to end as follows:

Wiping away my tears, I watched with joy as he led Phoebe and Alida to the place of peace he had finally been able to create. As the artist and his daughers stepped into the painting, the colors began to fade. Within moments the vision of peace had disappeared, gone with [the soldier-ghost] Cornelius and his daughters.
But I know it's there, waiting beyond the battle.
The place of peace.
Over there.

That ending brought me goosebumps. This book tapped into my own world view about a place of peace after death, and uplifted me. That gave me something to strive for in my own writing.
#83 - June 12, 2007, 11:29 AM
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 11:34 AM by hazelnut »

Krystal

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I agree with Donna's eloquent response posted on page two of this thread.

I must admit, this topic prompted me to consider my own WIP that has anthropomorphic characters that some find off-putting because of the element of fantasy. As I began to wonder if I was being displeasing to God, he blessed me with no less than half a dozen signs, letting me know that I should continue with this story, which is about to undergo its final revision!

Kisses and wishes,  :-*

Krystal
#84 - June 13, 2007, 12:28 AM
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 06:30 PM by Krystal »

DerekJ

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On most of the Fundamentalist objections to Oz and Harry Potter, there's an amusing scene in the (surprisingly balanced) documentary "H*ll House"--
Where otherwise rather reasonable local Bible-Belt volunteers trying to create the annual Fundamentalist church-based "Halloween warning" haunted-houses for the local teens every October want to write in a scene about "Teens lured into Satanism through role-playing fantasy games like Magic: the Gathering"
There's just one slight problem--One of the two people has never heard of it, and doesn't know how to spell it:   "So, is it 'Magic', and then 'The Gathering'?"..."No, it's one title, 'Magic', colon, 'The Gathering', that's the name."

I always pick that scene as a perfect illustration of how church complaints against high-profile fantasy aren't always as ingenuous as they look--
The strictest "franchise" churches are always careful to enforce being "separate" from pop culture by portraying pop-culture as Evil...Mainly, among other reasons, that members won't venture out into the wider world and see that it's not as bad a place as it looks and that it probably won't blow up tomorrow.
So, the highest-profile targets always singled out are mass-marketed names that parents wouldn't know but their kids might hear at school--And parents are given the warnings about the "lurking evil" deceptive and alluring franchises such as Disney, Pokemon, Harry Potter, hit movies, or even the Internet might possess   :devil: , and why it's better to keep your kids on nice, approved VeggieTales.
Never anything as detailed as Donna's post, of course, but one push in the right direction, and a hundred followers who now take this dictum seriously assume there must be some detailed, carefully thought-out reason for it...After all, why wouldn't there be?

(Had a friend of my parents visiting one time, who was thoroughly versed on the Fundamentalist line, and confessed she had no idea what happened in the HP books, but, well, they were doing magic!--
When I explained that in the story, it was just a matter of birth, and that wizards were wizards and muggles were muggles, her response was pretty much "...Oh." as the idea had never occurred to her, but still didn't rush to look up the story anyway.)
#85 - June 13, 2007, 01:11 AM
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 01:25 AM by DerekJ »

Amy Spitzley

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Oh man, Derek, that Satan-is-a-roleplayer thing always gets me. My husband is a total gamer geek. Every Thursday he does role-playing. It's just his thing. I've been married to him for ten years and I'm pretty convinced at this point that the man is NOT evil. (grin) Wierd, yes, but in our house that's a compliment! Actually, gaming probably helps him understand the fantasy I write.
And hazelnut, I couldn't finish Inkheart either. It had a cool premise and truly awesome cover art but it just couldn't pull me in. So it's not just you or anything. (grin)
Sorry about going all tangental...
AMY
#86 - June 13, 2007, 03:21 PM

Amy Spitzley

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Lee, I'm not Catholic but your priest sounds way cool. (grin!)
AMY
#87 - June 13, 2007, 04:31 PM

Lee, ditto what Amy said.

I love what you said - we were revolutionary to get here, but now . . . [no defying authority allowed].

That is SO-O-O true.

Any human authority who will not subject themselves to true accountability or being questioned is not worthy of being a leader. Trustworthy people know they are fallible and subject to getting things wrong and appreciate feedback, incl. other viewpoints.

Small wonder than some of the religious leaders who seal their flocks off from any kind of other influence start to act mentally disturbed - like David Koresh, Jim Jones, and others.

#88 - June 14, 2007, 10:08 AM

lizlane

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"You say you want a revolution? Well, we all want to change the world." 

But Jesus actually did.  Not only was he the first religious critic and dissenter, but even the way we measure time changed because of Him.  Controversy followed Jesus like the plague did rats.  If you are Christian, I would suggest you're not fully Christian until you accept Jesus' call to social activism.  He instructs us to care for the poor and afflicted.  He calls us to stand against all forms of abuse and declare to world what is good and right based on two simple tenets.  Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.  We are to be salt and light to the world.  And thanks to the T.V. show "How Clean is Your House," I've learned that salt is an effective, non-toxic abrasive.

If you are persecuted because you took a stand, then count yourself as blessed.  I wrote my book in response to the Christian community's condemnation of Harry Potter.  I read the first book.  I didn't become a fan (gasp!).  I wanted to do a better job.  J.K. wanted to entertain.  She crafted a story that successfully did that, capturing the imagination of children.  Yet it made me sick to think that kids were going to be raised without the benefit of the magical.  God instilled the magical into the human heart.  That's why sunrises and sunsets still cause people to pause.  Nothing in our world is material.  It's all supernatural.  The problem with Wiccans is that they worship the creation versus the Creator.  But their hearts are drawn to the inherent beauty God crafted into the design.

For those of you who have fallen in love, is there a more magical time? I would propose that love is the original magic, in all it's many forms.  God gave the human mind imagination that we might contemplate life on higher levels, that we might grasp truths of the Creator we couldn't otherwise acheive without asking the question, "What if?"

Even today's world is born of that very question.  "What if there is life on other plantets?"  That question led to the technological revolution that has resulted in the world we know today.  Newton asked "What if?" So did Pasteur, Plato and Einstein.  If they hadn't we wouldn't have democracy or milk that stays fresh.  I'm suggesting that we as humans participate in the magic of the Creator every time our "What if" questions results in the creation of something new.

To get caught up in the trap, blaming myths and the archetypal figures in fairy tale for the invitation to sin is one of the most ludicrous perversions Satan ever achieved.  We are called by Christ to think independently, outside the given box, outside the confines of other men.  To isolate our children from any source that would challenge them to entertain the "What if" question is a great disservice to society and creates exactly the sheep-like mentality needed for an "Anti-Christ" to seize control and lead people blindly into destruction.  Or some politician from Texas.

Write what you wish.  Write what you must!  Where would we be if Luther hadn't picked up his pen, some nails and a hammer?  Oh yeah.  Stuck in the Dark Ages.  History is always written by the victor.  I learned that in school.  But that was when we said the Pledge of Allegiance every day and opened our day with prayer. 

Some Christian factions love to cry "Persecution!"  Others will live it.  And if God wills, I'm sure I'm going to take some heat for my manuscript but I live to please Him, not others.  Long live FAIRYTALES!

The Dragon will be slain in the end and we all will live happily ever after!

#89 - June 15, 2007, 11:13 AM

Amy Spitzley

Guest
Well, my own falling in love was rather awkward, actually. I think that's why I write romance in so much of my stuff. I want to tell a better story than mine! Or at least a more graceful one. (grin)
But your point is well taken!
AMY
#90 - June 15, 2007, 05:52 PM

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