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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by andracill on November 25, 2021, 11:03 PM »
I read Ender's Game (and all the *sequels) when I was in my 20s. But my son read EG when he was 12 and really enjoyed it. In fact, it was assigned reading for the regular-track 8th graders at his middle school (he read Zoe's War in his honors English class). He didn't read the sequels until last year (at 19), though. He seemed to like them okay -- but if I put them in order of my favorites, they'd go: Xenocide, Speaker for the Dead, Ender's Game, and then way down the list, Children of the Mind. And I read the first Shadow book but didn't enjoy it enough to read any of the others.

Just commented to illustrate yet again how different books appeal to each of us differently. :grin3
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by A. S. Templeton on November 25, 2021, 09:12 PM »
I don't know about the Oz series but Ender's Game was definitely written for adults.
Can't disagree, but again, Ender's Game demonstrates that a juvenile MC--starting at the tender age of six!--can carry the main narrative, without the story being written for kindergartners or even preschoolers.

The argument that a nine-year-old MC automatically makes a story MG or even chapter book is, simply put, rubbish.
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by David Wright on November 25, 2021, 08:27 PM »
I don't know about the Oz series but Ender's Game was definitely written for adults. The sequel (which is awful) is all about politics. Books 3 and 4 are better, but not enough to get me to read the Ender's Shadow series.

The Wheel of Time also transitioned into GNs (moving from adult shelves to YA). It too gets into politics and quite violent themes later. Given the size of those tomes, it wasn't a surprise the GNs for book1 had to be delivered in multiple parts.
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by A. S. Templeton on November 25, 2021, 07:13 PM »
The Oz books were written for adults...
What a curious opinion... one contradicted by the author himself. From the introduction to The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (emphasis added):

[The] modern child seeks only entertainment in its wonder tales and gladly dispenses with all disagreeable incident.... Having this thought in mind, the story of “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz” was written solely to please children of today. It aspires to being a modernized fairy tale, in which the wonderment and joy are retained and the heartaches and nightmares are left out.

L. Frank Baum
Chicago, April, 1900.

The large type, 200-220 words/page, and copious illustrations of the Denslow-artwork edition together suggest that Baum clearly meant TWWoO to be read aloud side by side to the tykes and self-read by the older set.
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by Debbie Vilardi on November 25, 2021, 06:34 PM »
The Oz books were written for adults, so they may be ageless. They originals are not for the under 9 set. They are middle grade at the youngest today. 

I had to separate the text into images and give image notes for the book I wrote along with writing dialog in script format. I think this is usually the case with GN scripts, so it isn't up to the artist to do layout necessarily. I had 2-3 images per page, usually 5 or 6 per spread.
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by A. S. Templeton on November 24, 2021, 07:01 PM »
A 9 year old says chapter book to me. Think about your reader age.
I always do; nevertheless, comics and graphic novels are, as they used to say, "Where it's at."

As always in GN-land, it is up to the artist to lay out the artwork and speech bubbles (and captions, if any) such that the narrative flows smoothly, with the least amount of ambiguity as to successive action and dialogue such that even younger readers can keep up. I once read a poorly laid-out GN wherein the artist added ARROWS to forcibly direct the reader's attention to the desired next frame!

Oz: The Complete Collection (Young & Shanower) is a splendid example of a reimagined classic in GN presentation with appeal far beyond the under-9 set. That, like Ender's Game (which has been GNed) and the entire Harry Potter book series (not yet), bugsplats the zombie truism that readers can identify only with like-age protagonists.
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by Debbie Vilardi on November 24, 2021, 06:27 PM »
A 9 year old says chapter book to me. Think about your reader age.

(Btw, I've done a graphic novel as work-for-hire. The publisher considers it that, but the page count is PB length. The thing is it has a lot more images than a traditional PB. I can't say more until it comes out. There are PBs in this style from quite a way back though. Look at the work of James Stevenson. We love him in our house---my kids are now 16 and 20.)
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by A. S. Templeton on November 23, 2021, 11:43 PM »
I'm curious as to whether these are really novels or "comic-style picture books."
Good point. The published GNs that I analyzed were (and still would be) found on the adult GN shelf. The MC in my Thingamajigs GN is 9 years old, with dialogue vocabulary drawn from that of 120 years back--a bit quaint, but still accessible by today's kids.

Manga and classic action comix tend to rely heavily on visualized sound effects; adult-market GNs with literary pretensions, not so much. I try to keep SFX to a minimum.

Still, much depends on how much "production value" the artist adds when interpreting the script, informed by market standards. Appropriately simplifying the artwork while keeping the emotional core of the characters' expressions must be a tough balancing act in kidlit illustration, from PB through GN. Too, less detail = faster = cheaper to produce.
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Graphic Novels / Re: Stats on GN page/panel content
« Last post by Debbie Vilardi on November 23, 2021, 06:46 PM »
That is really cool to think about. I think varying the panels and amount of dialog vs narration is key. Also, that pages can be fully wordless is a thing.

For kids, audience also matters. Too much text per page will seem overwhelming to a young reader.

I'm curious as to whether these are really novels or "comic-style picture books." Twenty-eight pages is classic PB length, and forty-eight is short for a MG novel. We need a clearer term: graphic picture book?
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Research / Re: Looking for searchable, free database of historical photos
« Last post by JodyJS on November 23, 2021, 11:08 AM »
Thanks, all! I've used many of these successfully. I'll try the others.

I find the LOC database really difficult to navigate, unfortunately. Do you have to have the special handshake?  :grin3

Thanks again!
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