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Writing, Illustrating & Publishing => Book Talk => Topic started by: Sarah Perry on July 21, 2007, 02:09 AM

Title: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Sarah Perry on July 21, 2007, 02:09 AM
**************NOTE (from Jaina  :duh: )!!**************
This topic is for the discussion of the new Harry Potter book!
If you have not read your copy yet and don't wish it "spoiled" for
you, for goodness sake, turn around!  Run!  Go read!  Stay out!
************************************************

SPOILER ALERT!


Now back to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress.
***********************************************


Just finished reading my copy.  <3

Pros:
- The fact that most of it takes place outside of Hogwarts provided a nice break from the usual school-year structure
- The relationship dynamics between Harry, Ron and Hermione were superbly handled and so believable
- Despite the high death toll, almost all of the deaths were wrenching and somehow surprising
- The climactic scene in which Harry speaks to his parents, Sirius and Lupin is deeply moving & memorable
- Snape's past was everything I'd hoped for and more
- Almost constant action
- Harry's character development, especially his violently mixed emotions about Dumbledore
- The fact that the Hallows had been referenced in previous books--classic Rowling cleverness

Cons:
- After the extreme bleakness & angst of the rest of the book, the ending--especially the epilogue--was just too jarring and perky
- Ultimately, Voldemort never seemed like a very... substantial foe
- The series is over!

So, yeah.  I wish Harry had died.  It could've been noble and valiant and uplifting and even happy.  The ending JKR chose isn't exactly unexpected, though, and she handled it appropriately.
Title: Re: Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS
Post by: literaticat on July 21, 2007, 03:23 AM
Yes, the epilogue was too ... pat?  easy?  And so different in tone from the rest of the book, yes, I found it jarring.  Nice, I guess, but jarring.

It made me feel like it's wide open for her to write another book (or series) about the kids.  Which would be cute, but... <i>sigh</i>.
Title: Re: Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS
Post by: Jaina on July 21, 2007, 05:07 AM
Hi, guys.  Any particular reason this is under "Other Stuff" and not "Book Talk"?  If you've no objections, I'll move it there.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 21, 2007, 06:40 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the BEST BOOK EVER!!!!

It's hard to read a book when everyone in your house keeps showing up to ask how many more pages you've got. As soon as everyone's read it once, I'm going to go back and read it again.

I loved how it incorporated things from every previous book. Rowling is a genius--book 1 is a zip file of the whole series.

Hm, do you think people would read faster if I asked them how close they are to being done? I want to read it again!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 21, 2007, 01:44 PM
I cried and laughed and forgot to breathe for all 759 pages. It ended just as I hoped it would - I knew, just knew Snape was good - I had no idea how good... I will re-read these again and again... To quote olmue "This is the BEST BOOK EVER!!!!" 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Betsy on July 21, 2007, 04:35 PM
This thread is awfully quiet.  Are most of you still reading?  If you're finished, tell us what you think.  The reviews on Amazon are all over the place.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: RJ_Anderson on July 21, 2007, 06:47 PM
I... didn't really enjoy it at all, when I read it for the first time in the wee hours of this morning. But today I re-read some of the parts that had disappointed me most and they didn't seem quite as harsh. Still, I honestly have to say that I don't look forward to reading it again, or to reading it out loud to my husband (let alone my children), which makes me sad.

It's very dark. Which I was prepared for, but I wasn't prepared for there to be so little light at the end. Sure, there's an epilogue where everyone seems happy, but I felt as though I'd spent the whole book struggling through a fetid swamp of misery and horror, seeing characters I loved die in degrading and frequently senseless ways, finally broke through into a better place and then... was tossed out of the story before I even had a chance to look around and enjoy the scenery. And I ended up with substantially less respect for some of the characters (*cough*Dumbledore*cough*) than ever before, which was also depressing.

Admittedly, though, I was very tired by the time I finished the book. I'll re-read it eventually and then decide where it ranks among the other books. But I think it'll be quite some time before I feel like picking up Deathly Hallows again.

R.I.P. Snape. I knew you were loyal to Dumbledore and the side of good, I knew you would would die helping Harry... I just wasn't quite prepared for your death to be so cheap and (mostly) senseless.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on July 21, 2007, 07:23 PM
This thread is awfully quiet.  Are most of you still reading?  If you're finished, tell us what you think.  The reviews on Amazon are all over the place.

I'm surprised you want to know, given your "Heresy" thread.  However, I thought it was great.  Not perfect, by any means, but throughout the book, all the doors opened in the first 6 books were systematically closed.  And even though several of my pet theories were borne out (and I was therefore not surprised by certain turns of events), there were still plenty of surprises along the way.

The epilogue, while a bit pat, is, after all, 19 years after the fact, so I was willing to allow it.  Plus, anyone who couldn't stand the stress of not knowing the fates of key characters could definitely read it and know the fate of the major characters, without knowing how they got there.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Anne Marie on July 21, 2007, 07:41 PM
I am quite satisfied.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: jadedmetaphor on July 21, 2007, 07:44 PM
For some reason, I didn't cry nearly as much with this book as with book 6. Just a little sniffling, though it was moving. I was very proud of Neville.
 :horse The last 1/4th was the most satifying for me, if only because it was nice to finally have explanations!! I did enjoy the epilogue, although I wish we could have seen more of those 19 years (if even in little snippets) and more of the parents interacting and less of the kids laughing for no apparent reason. I do wonder if JKR will write a sequel with the kids. Overall, I found it satisfying and fun.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Betsy on July 21, 2007, 08:06 PM
Of course I want to know. 

First, it's a cultural phenomenon.  May not be my cup of tea, but I sure hope the rest of you got closure and satisfaction.  Second, I'm a children's writer, and I'm interested in if and how J.K. was able to pull it off.  The expectations were so high.   

Seems like the reviews so far say "yes," and the regular readers are mixed.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 21, 2007, 10:38 PM
Betsy, it was very satisfying. Rowling has laid in so many plots and subplots in her books that it's amazing she was able to bring them to a satisfying conclusion. I know that there is always advertising hype like "this book/series is the next Harry Potter!" but I don't think such a thing is possible. (And I hope not, since I'd rather be a great writer of my own, instead of just a next Somebody Else, wouldn't you?) But seriously, this...series, or story, is different. And I don't mean because of hype and advertising. I doubt anyone will achieve such a complicated yet satisfying story for a long, looooong time to come. What I continue to find astounding is that it's all there in book 1. The whole story, sort of in zip form. Even all the way down to the last book, there were so-called background details from the very first book that ended up being very significant to the entire plot. It's more than just keeping a list of what color eyes different characters have, or what houses they're in or whatever; it's keeping track of motivations, backstories, interactions that is something that JKR does extremely well. I love her ability to surprise (and since she's able to pull it off for more than one book, she's rather good at it). She's very good at giving you what you think is the truth--and it is, only it's not the whole truth, and time and again, she's able to surprise the reader by giving more of the truth at the right moment, and suddenly you find yourself restructuring the story into something completely different. She's created so many characters to care about, and she cares about them, too, following up all of these little stories, like Kreacher the unhappy house elf, or Neville's relationship with his gran.

Regarding the epilogue--I think it had a number of reasons for being there. First, a zillion readers are going to ask, anyway, so why not just print up the answers right there, and save breath? Second, it settles once and forever the notion that there will be some kind of book 8. No. No, no, and no. There is No Tension Left to stand a book on. No, the epilogue isn't necessary; the story ends find without it. But it's just nice to know what happens.

And regarding mixed reader responses...some of those readers raced through pretty fast. There's a lot in there. I suspect that reading the book by day, at a more normal reading pace, yields a somewhat different response than wolfing it down in one bite.

Something else I enjoyed--sometimes the myth or thematic overtones of a one-of-a-kind book can get a little too big. I'm sorry, throw tomatoes at me, but at some point in LOTR I couldn't really relate to Frodo anymore. His experiences and ultimate challenge were so exalted and so far removed from me that just couldn't keep the connection. Instead, it was Sam who was Everyman, Sam who I found I could hang out with. All of which made the reading experience a little strange to me--the key character being a bit on a pedestal. Despite all the climactic events of HP, though, I never lost touch with Harry. He's heroic in so many ways, yet he's always human and imperfect and vulnerable, and so we can still relate to him.

Also, I found the ending very happy and uplifting. Death isn't something to fear, it's not the End, it's the "next great adventure," to quote Dumbledore. The dead are there, waiting for us. At the same time, the living are alive, too, and those still alive at the end really could rejoice. This wasn't one of those books where the Hero conquers Evil and thereby does away with magic and now everyone lives like a Muggle. Instead, miracles happen, and we can rejoice in that magic.

Themes I loved:
miracles and magic
second chances
gifts, and yet the importance of our choices--such a very big theme
hope
love

Cheers to Harry Potter--the Boy Who Lived!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Betsy on July 21, 2007, 11:04 PM
Very nicely put, Olmue.  Obviously, a lot of people felt the same way.  I'm glad it came together for you.

By the way, I completely agree with you about LOTR.  It got a little too exhalted for me, too, in places.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Dystar on July 21, 2007, 11:36 PM
Thank you, Olmue. That's exactly what I wanted to say. I would have been very disappointed if Harry had died. Not because it would have been a sad ending, but because it would have been too easy. Death is not necessarily the very worst thing you can do to a character, only the very last thing.

(I was hoping JKR would give some hint as to Harry's -- and the others' -- professions. Harry would make the perfect Seeker for the Chudley Cannons  ;D )
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 22, 2007, 03:50 AM
olmue - thank you again for putting into words how I felt about this (and LOTR, too)... I'd like to add a couple of things for me... one -  I resisted my OCD reading habits - even though I got the book at 12:01a.m. at a local bookseller, I read only the first two chapters and then went to bed - I wanted to enjoy it. I read all day Saturday - taking a break for lunch and a walk. That way I didn't burn out completely - and reading it was much more enjoyable... and I did cry buckets - starting with Hedwig's death and on down the line...When Harry knows he has to go to Voldemort - as he's walking through the carnage and finding Neville...sheesh! I could hardly read for the tears. I was so frigging proud of him. (And what mother among us wouldn't have been Mrs. Weasley when she fights Bellatrix?)

My favorite line in the book (and probably will be forever) is when Dumbledore says, "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean it's not real?"  <<< that sums up the whole HP series for me.  JKR has gotten in my head and made Harry, Hogwarts and everything and everyone along the way "real" for me. Bless her for that... she's enriched my life.

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jenny Moss on July 22, 2007, 06:52 AM
My main disappointment was Snape. Yes, he's good (or makes good choices :) ), but after devoting much of book 6 to him and his "evilness" in Harry's eyes, I thought Rowling would give him a better end (which would include, as Rebecca said, a less senseless death).

Rowling does so many things so well -- so lots to admire. Which I did as I read the book -- "clever girl, clever girl." I liked the revealing of D's flawed character -- it develops one of the themes of the book.

I want to write more, but I gotta get to the church on time. :)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Anne Marie on July 22, 2007, 07:07 AM
I think Snape's senseless death recalled Cedric's senseless death, and emphasized just how evil Voldemort is.

But I would have PREFERRED a more heroic death--then again, he was more heroic than we knew so . . .  [shrug]
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on July 22, 2007, 07:36 AM
I'm with Anne Marie on Snape's death.  He was, after all, the Sydney Carton-like character in the book, but I wanted his death to be a "far, far better thing".  And while I didn't cry for him in the moment when he asks Harry to look into his eyes as he died, I cried hours later as I thought it over, realizing that to him, those eyes were Lily's, and he died satisfied/happy (or as close to that as he could in that moment).  And that he gave Harry the gift of all those memories and information, which could have felt like an info dump, but didn't.

Dobby's was the death that caused me to sob while reading, however.  I think because it was followed by a brief break in the action with time for the characters to mourn.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: JKC on July 22, 2007, 08:52 AM
I just closed the book and there's a lump in my throat. Wow. I'm very satisfied. I'm still a little too "there" to pick my favorite scenes.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jessica Burkhart on July 22, 2007, 09:01 AM
I thought it was fantastic. My heart raced, I laughed and cried. The Harry/Dumbledore reunion was one of my favorite parts and I loved learning everyone's true motivations after all. I almost didn't want an epilogue, but at least I know that's the end and no hope of a future HP. Now, back to book one...
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kurtis on July 22, 2007, 09:43 AM
I hope that her next series follows Teddy the werewolf.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jaclyn Dolamore on July 22, 2007, 01:29 PM
I kinda feel like I could just say "Yeah, what Rose said..."  I think we feel the same way about HP!  But, I'm going to attempt to make my own list of thoughts...

Yay:

--Overall, loved it.  I'm just amazed how she managed to tie up so many plot threads and mysteries in a satisfying way.  There were a lot of great "yeah!" moments, like Neville taking out Nagini and Mrs. Weasley's "Not my daughter, you -----!"  (Kinda wish Neville could've taken out the woman who killed his parents, but on the other hand, he had his own glory moment, and SO many characters had a reason to want Bellatrix's head by the end of the series...)
--The dynamic between Harry, Ron and Hermione seemed spot-on.
--I loved seeing more about the flaws of Dumbledore, it made him so much more complex and interesting to me, and not the "Gandalf lite" he seemed like to me in early books.
--Loved the Snape past.
--Dudley shook Harry's hand!
--The fates of Kreacher and Dobby.
--The themes, in general, as Rose mentioned, about death and hope and love and etc.
--The pacing.  This was definitely in my list of My Top 5 Most Gripping Books Ever.

Nay:
--Since book 6 I've been peeved about Lupin and Tonks.  Okay, I'm even willing to put aside my theory that Lupin was gay--I may have read too many LJ communities populated by slash fan fic writers.  But we never really got to see why they were a good match, and although Lupin was one of my favorite characters, I didn't really cry when he died because I thought he'd been kind of marginalized and turned into "tragic, doomed dad".
--I, too, wished Snape's death would've been a LITTLE more interesting and not just "snake attack!  dead."
--Oh come on, if you're going to have a happy happy epilogue with everyone married off, can't Neville and Luna hook up too?  And I also wanted to see what everyone's job was.  The epilogue, to me, seemed a little too brief and flaky, with all these characters just turned into cheerful parents--I wanted to know more about them as people.
--Oh, not FRED!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 22, 2007, 01:59 PM
I LOVED Dudley's farewell. Maybe, just maybe, there was something healing for Dudley to have Harry live with him for sixteen years.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 22, 2007, 03:06 PM
I was totally right about Snape killing Dumbledore on his orders. But I must say this: nooooo! Did I have to be right about Snape dying a tragic heroic death, too? And I didn't like how Rowling killed Fred, Lupin, and Tonks so suddenly at the end. I kept wailing, "Stop killing characters!" as I was reading. Besides that, the book was amazing. Many, many fantastic parts. The whole series is so magnificently complex and grand in scale. I don't know how Rowling kept it all straight in her head. I just finished reading Deathly Hallows, so I might post again later when I've had more time to think.

Karen

P.S. Loved Mrs. Weasley taking on Bellatrix. And Ron and Hermione finally kissing, and Harry saying, "Oi! There's a war going on!" And Teddy Lupin sounds like a great character in the making. But Snape! (weeps) I wish he didn't die so fast. I wish he didn't die at all.

P.P.S. Oh, and I got a lump in my throat when Dobby died. I don't know why, I thought Dobby was so annoying before this book, but now.... poor elf....

P.P.P.S. Does anyone think that Lily should have at least had an inkling of Snape's feelings for her? She seemed clueless, almost insensitive.

P.P.P.P.S. One more thing: Hermione seemed weepier and stupider in this one. And where was Ginny? Merely a prize for Harry? I wanted to see Tonks do more than just sit on the sidelines and have a baby, then get killed. It seems a pity that Bellatrix was perhaps the most powerful witch in the story.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: thirtycats on July 22, 2007, 03:45 PM
I loved it--even the epilogue.    I had to read that part twice though--to keep all the kids straight.

I'll definitely want to read the whole book again someday!

Probably soon.

 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: thunderchikin on July 22, 2007, 04:14 PM
Though I'm not happy she killed off for no dramatic reason my favorite character Fred Weasley, I think she nailed this book.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jaclyn Dolamore on July 22, 2007, 04:24 PM
P.P.P.P.S. One more thing: Hermione seemed weepier and stupider in this one. And where was Ginny? Merely a prize for Harry? I wanted to see Tonks do more than just sit on the sidelines and have a baby, then get killed. It seems a pity that Bellatrix was perhaps the most powerful witch in the story.

I readily admit I favor my male characters, too, but this has always been a gripe of mine with HP.  Not even an attempt is made to make a good female character!  Everyone important and powerful and interesting is male.  Who do we get for the girl team?  Bookish, bossy Hermione; consummate mother Mrs. Weasley; never-lives-up-to-her-potential Tonks who pines for Lupin and then ends up becoming a wife, a mom, and then dead; boring Ginny; flaky Luna; evil Bellatrix and Umbridge...etc. etc.  We have sexy French veela girls and girls who pine after Quidditch players and devoted mothers all over the place...but the girls, to me, very rarely seem to break out of stereotype and feel important compared to the exploits of the many excellent male characters.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kurtis on July 22, 2007, 04:34 PM
Well, I think Minerva is pretty awesome, but she people tend to take her for granted and forget about her.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jaclyn Dolamore on July 22, 2007, 04:46 PM
I actually almost mentioned Minerva in my last post as an example of a pretty awesome female character...but I would like to see more diversity.  And she does still start off as a stereotype--strict but inherently lovable old spinster teacher.

I mean, I still like her, but I'd like to see more than just that.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: andracill on July 22, 2007, 04:47 PM
Okay, I haven't read every word yet - -but I did read the beginning and the end...it's the only way I can stand it :)  Now I can go back and read it thoroughly, which I'm really anticipating.  

I love how she tied everything together, and I can't wait to finish this one and give it a few months -- and then start at the beginning and watch everything fall into place!

I do wish Snape and Harry had a greater opportunity for Harry to let Snape know that he knew -- Snape seemed the most tragic of all the characters, like he was constantly fighting for a prize he'd never claim (since she was dead and married to someone else, to boot)...yep, he's my fav! :)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Marybeth on July 22, 2007, 04:57 PM
I loved this book, as I've loved every Harry Potter book.

What I especially love are the characters--they're all so vivid and real to me. 

Yep. I think JKR is brilliant.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: buglady5 on July 22, 2007, 05:05 PM
It's official.  Jo's a genius. And she earned every penny of that billion she lives with.

I read the whole thing in about 12 hours.  Couldn't stop reading, crying, rereading, laughing, crying...

My major disappointments were:

1.  Why didn't Snape appear in the headmaster portraits, so Harry could acknowledge his sacrifice?  I SO thought, when it said, "Harry had eyes for only one headmaster..." that that must mean Snape!  I mean, he already had his quality time with Dumblodore!  What a disappointment!

2.  Luna's future - with such a foreboding name, I thought for sure she would be in the epilogue.  Yup, I would have loved to see her with Neville, too.

I have two questions for people who perhaps read the book more carefully than I -

1.  How did the sword end up in the sorting hat in the end?  I thought the goblin still had it!

2.  Were the names of Ron's and Hermione's children significant?  (Rose and Hugo?)  I don't remember these names from the books.


buglady, who's thankful that she won't be needing grief counseling now that Harry lives on

P.S.  Is anybody else going back to read Book 1, just so you can see all of the clues all over again and DUH yourself for missing them the first time around?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: buglady5 on July 22, 2007, 05:08 PM
OOOOHHHH - it just occurred to me (because I'm often slow to catch on), the reason for Gryffindor and Slytherin's house colors.  Think about it:  green for Slytherin (Harry's eye color), and red for Gryffindor (Voldemort's eye color), to once again illustrate both the connection and opposition between them...

Man, she's good...


buglady
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on July 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
Though I'm not happy she killed off for no dramatic reason my favorite character Fred Weasley, I think she nailed this book.

I could be wrong, but I think the death of Fred (coupled with George's earlier missing ear) was supposed to provide the basis for Mrs. Weasley's sudden foray into cursing and battle (simultaneously).
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 22, 2007, 05:22 PM
I readily admit I favor my male characters, too, but this has always been a gripe of mine with HP.  Not even an attempt is made to make a good female character!  Everyone important and powerful and interesting is male.  Who do we get for the girl team?  Bookish, bossy Hermione; consummate mother Mrs. Weasley; never-lives-up-to-her-potential Tonks who pines for Lupin and then ends up becoming a wife, a mom, and then dead; boring Ginny; flaky Luna; evil Bellatrix and Umbridge...etc. etc.  We have sexy French veela girls and girls who pine after Quidditch players and devoted mothers all over the place...but the girls, to me, very rarely seem to break out of stereotype and feel important compared to the exploits of the many excellent male characters.

Agreed. I kept waiting for Ginny to charge along and insist on helping Harry. And for Hermione to stop bursting into tears and go beyond clever spells, maybe saving Ron or something equally important. And for Tonks to just do more than getting married, pregnant, and killed. At least Mrs. Weasley had one moment of glory.

Karen

P.S. I don't think this ruins the books for me. They're still a one-of-a-kind phenomenon.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on July 22, 2007, 05:24 PM
Buglady: the answer is the same as it was back in The Chamber of Secrets:  The Sorting Hat belonged to Godric Gryffindor, as did the sword.  Magical aid is magical aid, it seems, and the issue of ownership seems to have been decided in favor of the wizarding interpretation, and not in favor of the goblins' take on things.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 22, 2007, 05:33 PM
You know, I wonder what writers can learn from Harry Potter. It's obviously excellent writing in action. What do you think makes the books so special? Off the top of my head, I'd have to say: the huge cast of characters, many quirky or otherwise memorable, that you love or love to hate; the tightly interwoven plotlines, usually several mysteries going on at once, that ratchet up the tension; the incredibly detailed wizarding world that feels real; and the protagonist, Harry, with all his flaws and unwavering urge to do the right thing. Now, how do you write like that? I don't mean mimicking Harry Potter, I mean finding the right combination of ingredients to create magic. No pun intended.

Karen
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jen on July 22, 2007, 05:52 PM
This was far and away my favorite Harry Potter book.  I was somewhat tentative, maybe even skeptical going in.  I didn't even open it on Friday night, but I read it straight through on Saturday, and then read some parts over and over again.  There was so much I loved- in fact, it's the first Harry Potter book in which I've had favorite parts.  The others, I just read through and then didn't re-read until years later, if at all, but this one... I read the scenes from Snape's past again and again.  It wasn't at all unexpected ("Snape was in love with Lily" is one of the most common themes/predictions out there), but it was so well done.  While I expected that he might have had feelings for Lily, I definitely didn't predict that they were best friends- or that they knew each other before Hogwarts.  There's something so poignant about the idea of him loving her from the time he was nine years old until the day he died, and it just wrenched my heart. 

I also LOVED how Kreacher did an about face and became loyal to Harry after a little kindness- also seems to give some purpose to Hermione's whole SPEW movement.  I loved Mrs. Weasley taking on Bellatrix (that one line of dialogue made the book for me, because I've wanted to say that to Bellatrix for a really long time).  I think Fred was actually the perfect person to kill off.  Even though she didn't overdo (or even really DO) his family mourning him, his death hit me hard.  Not because I loved him (even though I did), but because the idea of George living on without him is really tragic.  I loved that Percy came back to the side of good, and that Neville became all bada**.  I loved that Rowling gave us shades of gray that the rest of the series is missing (Snape, Dumbledore, Dudley, the Malfoys), and that at the very end, Harry basically said that there was nothing wrong with Slytherin. 

I was so very happy with this book- I'm already thinking of reading it again.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: thirtycats on July 22, 2007, 06:01 PM


2.  Were the names of Ron's and Hermione's children significant?  (Rose and Hugo?)  I don't remember these names from the books.




I wondered that too.   I read it fast--like a lot of people.   I feel I got 95% of it, but will want to read it again more slowly.  Someday. 

Today I read something about R.A.B.  I  remembered it being revealed in the book and having an "Oh!" moment.   But then I couldn't remember who R.A.B was revealed to be.     I totally blanked out.   

After a moment of two I finally remembered.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: buglady5 on July 22, 2007, 06:06 PM

2.  Were the names of Ron's and Hermione's children significant?  (Rose and Hugo?)  I don't remember these names from the books.


Sorry for triple-posting in the same thread, but I just now noticed that these children have the same first initials as their parents.  

Again, slow to catch on.

buglady
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 22, 2007, 06:43 PM
I'm posting rather excessively, but only because my family hasn't finished their copy of Deathly Hallows yet and keep warning me not to spoil anything. I know my mom in particular will be unhappy about Snape's death. Before the book came out, we kept half-joking that we would throw all the books out the window if Snape dies. I definitely not throwing my copy of Deathly Hallows, because Snape was working with Dumbledore after all, but is anybody else here as weepy as me about Snape dying?

Karen
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: LindaJoy on July 22, 2007, 08:11 PM
I loved it. I loved that she included an epliogue (which from what I've heard is her way of defnitely ending the series...I heard here, I think, that the movie rights have more than necessary character rights.).

I was so relieved Harry lived. What kind of message would that give young readers if the hero does everything to fight evil and then dies? It would be a real "hope" killer. This ending was great -- seeing his family and Dumbledore. I loved going back in the Pensive plus the big battle at the end with a cast of Harry supporters.

My guesses were half-right (half-wrong?). But I was glad to be wrong in my guess that Hagrid would die. I was saddest about Lupin-Tonks. And it did seem to me that a new series with their half-werefolf son could be interesting...Although I've always said that JK won't write anything like this again.(Another thing I could be wrong about).  But I was right about Snape being good and about one of the Weasley twins dying. I was wrong about Harry's scar being the horocruz, but close since it was Harry.

I was camping this weekend, but my wonderful hubby found a K-Mart 30 miles away which opened at midnight to sell Harry books. It was a funny, very poorly attended party (no one really knew to come) with about 20 people there. No waiting in line! Our books were handed to us in the store just after midnight. And I had it finished within two days.

JK did a great job. I respect and admire her.

LJS
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kai on July 22, 2007, 10:25 PM
The book was great.  I didn't want to put it down until I realized that once I finished it, it would never be knew to me again!

I have to voice my dissappointment in the Snape wrap-up.  I can't like a character who tortures, kills and condones voilence on children-simply for the love of a woman!  I was never going to like Snape and wish he would have ended as the intellegent coward that he lived his life as.  I wanted to gag when his name was used as Harry's son's middle name.

***Okay to throw stones now***

That said, I loved the resolutions with Dudley, Kreacher, Dobby and Neville.  The action was non-stop!  The friendship with the trio was fantastic (also my favorite part of LOTR).  The added character levels to The Malfoys & Dumbledore were so satisfying.  Some of it seemed forced: Wormtails repayment of debt made me say 'huh?', Aberforth's role seemed 'stuck-into' the story (my son has already stolen the book, so I may have gotten the name wrong), the quaint wrap up at the end.

As an author, I am left thinking-Oh, that is why I don't have bestsellers on the shelves, I wouldn't have written it that way.  Hmmm, food for thought.

I'll read it again and again and I'll go to the midnight movie releases. 

-P
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MVP on July 22, 2007, 10:31 PM
Count me as another satisfied and relieved fan!

These are a few of my favorite things:

--Kreacher's transformation.  Loved it, loved it, loved it.  I'm so glad we got to see another side of him.  And it made me laugh, when he led the Hogwarts house-elves charging into battle.
--Snape and Lily's childhood friendship.  I'd figured that he was in love with her, but I'd never guessed that their connection went so far back.
--The scene when Harry's walking to Voldemort, thinking he's going to die.  My heart was pounding as hard as his, and the interaction with his parents, Sirius and Lupin was very moving.
--Harry's chat with Dumbledore in Kings's Cross.  I liked getting to know Dumbledore better as a more rounded-out character, even if some of the revelations about him were disturbing.
--The moment when all the portraits of the headmasters of Hogwarts applauded Harry when he walked in the study.
--That Harry is a godfather!  I love the thought of him being for Teddy what Sirius was for him.
--Can't say I loved it exactly, because it was too sad, but I thought the scene with Dobby's death was exceptionally well done.  When I got to the "Dobby--a free elf" inscription on his tombstone--well, that's the most I've cried in any Harry Potter book.
--The quote in the beginning, with the ending "bless the children, give them triumph now."  I don't know what it meant in the original context, but in this book I took it as a plea to the fallen (James, Lily, Sirius, Dumbledore) to send help and blessing to Ron, Hermione and Harry.  Gave me goosebumps.

I thought the middle dragged a bit, when they were hopping around to keep from being discovered and not finding any horcruxes.  I was also disappointed that Ginny was left out of so much of it.  Overall, though, I'm very happy.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: AooH on July 22, 2007, 10:40 PM
I'm still crying, and I stopped reading hours ago.
I thought the epilogue was perfect, other than feeling a didge rushed and having too many names thrown at me all at once- especially since they were previously used names attached to new characters, so it was somewhat confusing, even though I understood why it was being done.  What I walked away with was feeling Harry's total forgiveness and newfound fondness of Snape, that he would name his son after the two bravest wizards he'd ever known.  Both had disappointed him and caused him pain and hid so much truth from him, but he was able to recognize what they had to sacrifice, and as Dumbledore had said, Harry was the most selfless person he had ever met, and so instead of harbor resentment, he honored them.
I don't think the point of the epilogue was to show who married whom- I doubt there was any question of that, really.

Tonk's and Lupin's deaths were hard, and Fred's, but strangely, I think the one that got to me the most, right up there with Snape's, was Dobby's. I had never really cared for Dobby before.  He was a bit of comic annoyance that wore thin on me, but his death really hurt.
And the part I LOVED the most- I'm not kidding- was Kreacher's redemption and how it was brought about.  That. Was. Beautiful.
Oh, and when Harry walked up to Luna's room and saw portraits of himself and other members of DA linked about with a gold chain made of the words FRIENDS- that was so lovely, such a sweet glimpse of Luna's character.  I'd always liked her, but that just made that liking rock-solid.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Dystar on July 22, 2007, 11:11 PM
Ah, Tonks, we hardly knew ye. I was disappointed that she died.

And I LOVED hearing about Professor Longbottom!

Yep, Dobby's death and funeral had me crying, too.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jaclyn Dolamore on July 22, 2007, 11:17 PM
I do know what you mean, pkm--I don't feel as strongly, but I do think Snape's love for Lily was a smidge creepy.  I can see why she rejected him and stopped being his friend.  He was never really a great person, no matter what.

On the other hand, I think he was a great "shades of grey" character--I think Lily brought out the best of him in many ways, and perhaps that was why he loved her, and never forgave himself for calling her a Mudblood.  I like that JKR doesn't just wave her writer wand and make Snape suddenly a great guy.  He's an immensely flawed individual who did some very good deeds, all for an unrequited love that was kind of creepy stalker-like and he should have moved on from.  I don't love him, but I forgive him.  He was only human, and he was trying to follow the path of love, even if his was a twisted one--more than Voldemort ever tried for.  (Of course, I wish Voldemort had been more of a shades-of-gray character, but ah well...)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: chrisser on July 22, 2007, 11:34 PM
Just finished--am feeling content and contemplative and curious about all the details I'm sure I missed. I'm in awe of Rowling's talent, of the sheer magnitude of the story she wove over the course of seven books.

I loved the strength of the relationship between Harry, Ron, and Hermione. I was shocked for a little while that Ron would run out, but I knew he'd be back! He had some demons to face, and he did so beautifully. I love that every character had flaws, but the real heroes were the ones who faced their flaws and came back stronger. I thought Hermione was an absolute rock. She saved them again and again. Her planning, her knowledge, her courage, her unfailing loyalty--I thought she was by far the strongest female character in the books. I forgive her for crying sometimes. I would have too.

I loved Kreacher. And Neville! I think I liked him best of all. I was glad to see Harry end up at Hogwarts and watch the final battle unfold there. It seemed appropriate. For most of the book, although Harry was carrying out Dumbledore's wishes, I kept thinking that the rest of the wizarding world needed Harry, needed his strength and leadership and even his symbolism to bolster the cause. It was great to see everyone rally around him when he entered the Room of Requirement.

I loved the radio broadcast with Lee Jordan.

I cried when Harry came to the realization he would not survive, but he went willingly anyway. I cried when Hagrid mourned for Harry. Most powerful moment for me: Harry's transformation after his "death" into someone serene, confident, at peace, no longer at the mercy of Voldemort's influence--though of course still haunted by loss and pain.

My biggest disappointment: I too would have liked to see more of Ginny. After watching the fifth movie last week and seeing how they portrayed the strength of her magic, it seemed like foreshadowing for a larger role she would play. Bummer.

I also thought the epilogue was unnecessary, and a little jarring, but I can see why she added it to preempt endless speculation by fans. And I can't say I dislike happy endings. It was refreshing, really. It's just scary to think I can't watch TV or read a book anymore without worrying that my favorite characters are going to get killed off. I blame "Lost."

Sigh. A wonderful finale to an incredible series. I'm a happy camper.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on July 23, 2007, 12:01 AM
Fantastic!!!!!!

It was just fantastic - where do you even start?  She managed to tie everything together so brilliantly!  I thought I'd still have so many more questions but at this stage I don't - the only real question I have is whose child is Victorie.  Bill and Fleur's - named after Viktor Krum? 

I looooooooooved the sappy ending!!!!!  I could barely read the book I was just so worried lol  So to have my dream ending of Harry and Ginny, and Ron and Hermione all happily married yay!!!  People thought I was crazy when I said that was how it would end   :jump  But seriously after everything they all went through I think they deserved it!!

The only thing I disliked in the whole book was the giants ... I still don't really get the point of them being there.  But apart from that I loved it all.

Hedwig, Dobby, Fred, Lupin and Tonks :(  I was upset the most by Hedwig, cried the most over Dobby, was deeply touched by Fred, felt Lupin being there to join Lily, James and Sirius at the end was very fitting ... I was a bit surprised over Tonks death but sort of makes sense that Harry would become godfather to a baby boy.

Quote
Who do we get for the girl team?  Bookish, bossy Hermione; consummate mother Mrs. Weasley; never-lives-up-to-her-potential Tonks who pines for Lupin and then ends up becoming a wife, a mom, and then dead; boring Ginny; flaky Luna; evil Bellatrix and Umbridge...etc

I loooooove the females in these books!  I think they are fantastic and realistic and really varied - J.K. certainly hasn't labelled all females the same and each of them brings something special and different to Harry's life.  And I would say Ginny is anything but boring!!  She is a really powerful witch and definitely Harry's match.  I've been cheering for them since the first book - I loved that whole storyline.

I can't wait to re-read it now that I know all is well   :dancing:
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 23, 2007, 03:23 AM
Regarding the names of the children... Hugo, Rose and Victorie.... I couldn't help but make the Victor Hugo connection immediately... and I wonder if this poem has anything to do with it....        If not - it still seems appropriate, to me.  (and there is that JKR/Victor Hugo/Nicholas Flamel connection...)

THE GRAVE AND THE ROSE

        by: Victor Hugo (1802-1885)

            THE Grave said to the Rose,
            "What of the dews of dawn,
            Love's flower, what end is theirs?"
            "And what of spirits flown,
            The souls whereon doth close
            The tomb's mouth unawares?"
            The Rose said to the Grave.
             
            The Rose said, "In the shade
            From the dawn's tears is made
            A perfume faint and strange,
            Amber and honey sweet."
            "And all the spirits fleet
            Do suffer a sky-change,
            More strangely than the dew,
            To God's own angels new,"
            The Grave said to the Rose.

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on July 23, 2007, 03:55 AM
Quote
I'm posting rather excessively, but only because my family hasn't finished their copy of Deathly Hallows yet and keep warning me not to spoil anything.

hehe I can understand how you feel!  Although I'm lucky in that my other half doesn't read the books and is not likely to, but has seen the movies, so he was perfect to have around as I went around the house "omg Hedwig!!!!"  "oh no Dobby!!!!!"  "I TOLD you Snape was good!" etc etc  I was rather vocal reading the book I must say ... I was also yelling out things like "oh no!!" or "bl**dy brilliant!" or, and my most used expression "Ohhhhhh the twists and turns!!!!!" and he would call out from his computer "What happened now?  What happened now?"  ... so great to have someone around that I could say stuff too because I'm hopeless at keeping a secret   :x

MVP - I agreed with all of your comments so much!!  I loooooooved the Headmasters all cheering for Harry.  Fantastic!!  Oh I want to go and read that part again ... actually it might just be my most favourite part!  Sadly my sister has already taken my copy so I have to wait till she finishes.

I never really saw what was so 'unique' about Harry getting older in every book before ... but I think if kids who were 11 when the first book came out who have gotten older but Harry had not aged or the books hadn't become so dark and heart pounding they would have lost interest.  I think she aged the characters so well.  I also loved how she took us all down memory lane with the tiniest things like Sirius's motorbike through to Ron saying something like "well don't get too close.  Grandad Weasley wouldn't be happy if you married a pureblood", (Mr Weasley was probably my most favourite character) through to Harry having one final look at his old room under the stairs - to his memories as he was walking towards Voldemort preparing to die (Also I think his reaction to his fate was extremely believable)

Quote
You know, I wonder what writers can learn from Harry Potter. It's obviously excellent writing in action.

I have to agree with that ... it's amazing how someone can write something and a whole 'movie' just unfolds in your mind.

I also agree with the comment that JK does deserve all her millions!  I'm struggling with my first 3 chapters of a rather tame MG in comparison lol Those of us who do write children's books should know she certainly doesn't have a great big voice calling out to her from the sky while she takes dictation and I think she has done a truly amazing job.  I never understand people who are jealous.  As much as I want to write a GREAT book, I also love to read great books.  I hope that there isn't another "JK" out there ... I hope they are many, many more! 

I seriously could go for hours and hours on this topic   :sb

hehe  .... ok making myself go to bed!!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Marybeth on July 23, 2007, 06:59 AM
I readily admit I favor my male characters, too, but this has always been a gripe of mine with HP.  Not even an attempt is made to make a good female character!  Everyone important and powerful and interesting is male.  Who do we get for the girl team?  Bookish, bossy Hermione; consummate mother Mrs. Weasley; never-lives-up-to-her-potential Tonks who pines for Lupin and then ends up becoming a wife, a mom, and then dead; boring Ginny; flaky Luna; evil Bellatrix and Umbridge...etc. etc.  We have sexy French veela girls and girls who pine after Quidditch players and devoted mothers all over the place...but the girls, to me, very rarely seem to break out of stereotype and feel important compared to the exploits of the many excellent male characters.

Oh my! I have to respectfully disagree.  I think Hermoine's brilliance is critical to Harry's victory. Her intolerance of cruelty, her continued loyalty, and her bravery are unequaled. She has quirks, yes, but so do the male characters, ie Ron's constant sarcasm, Neville's clumsiness and ineptitude at certain things, the 'oafs--Dudley and Crabbe and Boyle'.  As for Mrs. Weasley . . . To me, she is Mother Earth--she is wonderful in her willingness to embrace and protect Harry. The 'mother love' pours from her, giving Harry something he's never had, something that is so critical to us all.  And Luna?  Well, she is no flakier than her father (a male!  :) )  Umbridge and Bellatrix are no more evil than the male deatheaters.  And remember Gilderoy Lockhart--he was such a pompous, foolish man.   As for the girls pining after Quidditch players, well, we also have Harry and Ron and other men pining after the girls!

I absolutely love her characters. It seems they reflect the good and bad and laughable traits in all of us.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: andracill on July 23, 2007, 07:50 AM
Buglady, I was also disappointed that Snape's portrait wasn't there when Harry went to Dumbledore's old office -- that was probably THE most disappointing aspect of the ending for me.  That and Ginny's lack of involvement.  I did like Hermione and her strength, but I truly thought Ginny would have a much greater role -- and ever since I read the HBP for the first time, I believed that Ginny really would storm into their plans and take her rightful place.  So that was my second biggest disappointment.

But...those were the only two.  And I must say, after spending about six hours reading the book yesterday, last night, as I went to bed, I just imagined my biggest disappointment away and 'wrote' that missing scene in my head ;)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Anne Marie on July 23, 2007, 07:55 AM
I truly thought Ginny would have a much greater role -- and ever since I read the HBP for the first time, I believed that Ginny really would storm into their plans and take her rightful place.  So that was my second biggest disappointment.

I would have liked to have seen more of it, but weren't both Ginny and Neville instrumental in the rebellion going on Hogwarts throughout the book?  We are always in Harry's POV, so since he wasn't there, we couldn't have seen it, but she did refer to it. 

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 23, 2007, 08:14 AM
I loooooove the females in these books!  I think they are fantastic and realistic and really varied - J.K. certainly hasn't labelled all females the same and each of them brings something special and different to Harry's life.  And I would say Ginny is anything but boring!!  She is a really powerful witch and definitely Harry's match.  I've been cheering for them since the first book - I loved that whole storyline.

If Ginny is a really powerful witch and definitely Harry's match, why isn't she alongside him, just as important to the plot? It almost seems like Ginny could be in a coma for the duration of Deathly Hallows and it wouldn't make any difference. Yes, she's helping by being in Dumbledore's Army, but she's just one of many. Where's her turn in the spotlight? Even Dobby and Neville got their chances.

Karen
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Athena529 on July 23, 2007, 08:55 AM
I finished reading the book yesterday and felt exhausted! It was quite a feat- amazing to think one person wrote it all.

There were definitely characters I would have liked to have seen more of; however, when I think of the huge cast (and it's quite something to give personalities to so, so many) I felt satisified that Rowling did the best job possible with the staggering number of plot lines, settings, animals and people.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kai on July 23, 2007, 09:30 AM
And what about Harry's wand?  I'm certain I was not the only one who experienced a moment of panic and dread that Harry could never pervail without his wand!  Tieing up that little piece of the story with Harry fixing his wand with the Elder Wand was terrific.

Rowling's character development is beyond superb.  I like the fact that Voldemort was so straight forward evil.  He'd torn his soul apart so much, it would have made it less believable for the reader if he had anything else left.  Yet we saw so much of his deep character as Tom Riddle. 

I love the fact that we all can read this book and I can decide Snape is still bad and others can decide to forgive him.  That means that Rowling has given her readers so much of a character that we can make the decision, she hasn't 'told' us how to feel.

KristyAnn-you are right:  As much as I want to write a GREAT book, I also love to read great books.  I hope that there isn't another "JK" out there ... I hope they are many, many more!

P
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: LindaB on July 23, 2007, 10:17 AM
I loved it. I loved it. I loved it!

I thought the ending was very satisfying. The only detail that I wanted to know was what Harry's job was 17 years later. I always thought he would make a great headmaster for Hogwarts.

I've read the final three or four chapters three times already and each time I catch a detail I missed before. I loved how she gave Dumbledore flaws. It made him so much more human. I hated seeing Fred die. I loved Percy coming back at the a crucial moment but I would have been much happier if she had killed off Percy instead of Fred. I loved Neville's grandmother. I wanted to cry when Dobby died. I don't know why that affected me so much.

I never liked Snape but seeing his motivation made me look at him in a different light. Still I was surprised when Harry named his son after Snape. But then, a man who would go willingly to his death to save others would be far more forgiving than I am. I think the way LV killed Snape showed how little LV regarded human life.

I think Rowlings is a brilliant writer. I was so sorry when I finished the book. I hope she writes something new soon even if it's not about Harry Potter. But I also hope she will revisit Harry Potter's world one day. I don't think the seven books are enough.

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: AooH on July 23, 2007, 10:44 AM
So, just out of curiosity, what's wrong with being a devoted wife and mother?  I don't think the male characters would have been excellent male characters without the strong support of the women behind them in these books.  I know there was a LOT more to Tonks and Lupin's story than Rowling was able to cram in- it's tantalizing, and it's a thread that wasn't neatly tied up.  No book should have everything explained to death.  The thing is, you can't write everything, and the focus of the books wasn't on many of these characters- it was on Harry, Ron, and Hermione.  The other characters added a richness to the story and fleshed it out.  If she'd tried to tell Ginny's story, and Neville's story, and everyone else's, we'd all still be reading, if we could even lift the book.
As a wife and mother, one of the most exciting things for me is to see my kids and my husband succeed in what they attempt, because I've been there supporting them.  Their successes are very much my successes, and so the book read very, very real to me. The female characters were not weak, or boring, but their character was such that it shone through the actions of the male characters who were the major players.  I don't think Ron would have had the strength he had without his mother's strong and proper love and upbringing of her children behind him.  Harry's desire for a mother was heartbreaking, and her sacrifice shaped who he was.  I have a feeling Ted will grow up with some of the same anguish, but the knowledge of what his parents sacrificed themselves for will do a great deal for building his character.
 Hermione could be bossy, yes.  Who'd want a perfect character?  I liked that character flaw in her, because as exasperating as she was at times, she was someone real and consistent.  And brainy and bookish is a problem?  How far would Harry and Ron have gotten if they'd had a ditzy, hormone crazed cheerleader type along with them?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Z-cat on July 23, 2007, 11:11 AM
I wanted to see the Hufflepuff common room! It's the only one we never got to visit!!! ;) 

Loved this book.
-I was right about Snape. And I took a lot of heat for saying he was my favorite character. Until the last half of book 7, when Dumbledore
  finally becomes human,  he was the most complex, and least definable character in the whole wizarding world. Good or Evil? we didn't really 
  know until the very end.
- I was right about Aberforth! The first time I read #5, I remember thinking, "That barman's description sounds exactly like Dumbledore." Then
  when I reread it, and Moody was naming off all of the Order members, I knew it was him. I thought it was odd that Harry didn't ask Moody
  or Dumbledore about Aberforth.
-I was not right about much else, but it was still a great read. The fastest 750 pages I've ever read.

Only a scant few things dissapointed me.
- It was the fastest 750 pages I ever read. But there was no way I could have let it sit.
-For all the attention it got, I thought that Tonks/Lupin/Teddy subplot was going to be more important. Tonks was never one of my favorites,
  and I thought Teddy was going to be way more important down the road, since Lupin was the last of James' friends, and the one Harry spent   the most time with.
-That final showdown, when Harry really and truly comes face to face with Voldemort at the do-or-die moment was a teeny, tiny, slightly little bit
  anticlimatic. Just one blast, and Voldemort was done. I thought he would be a more clever opponent. Though I was so emotinoally exhausted
  at that point that I was just glad it was over.

Loved it. Now I am really interested to read something by Rowling that isn't Harry Potter.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jen on July 23, 2007, 12:28 PM
Random question- Harry is Teddy's godfather, yes?  And then both of Teddy's parents die, and Harry mentions that Teddy comes over to dinner several nights a week, but doesn't live with them (and, it sounds like, never has).  So who raised Teddy?  You'd think Harry, after having lost his own parents at the same age and having spent so much time wishing Sirius had been his guardian all along, wouldn't have passed that on to someone else.  I can see him possibly letting Teddy go to Andromeda (she didn't die, right?), since she'd just lost her daughter (and possibly her husband, though I might be making that up).

One friend told me today that her favorite part was when, as he took his last breath, Snape went all "look at me" to Harry, and it later becomes clear that he wanted the last thing he saw to be Lily's eyes.

My biggest beef with the whole Lily/Snape thing was that, when he was groveling and apologizing to her for calling her a mudblood, I was a little surprised she didn't come out and say "You have a choice between me and them and this is the last time you'll EVER get to choose me" instead of saying "you've already made your choice"- did it seem to anyone else like Snape might have actually turned away from it all at that point, just to be a part of Lily's life? 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 23, 2007, 12:34 PM
So, just out of curiosity, what's wrong with being a devoted wife and mother?  I don't think the male characters would have been excellent male characters without the strong support of the women behind them in these books. 

I didn't say there was anything wrong with being a devoted wife and mother. I just wish the female characters weren't always dependent on and supporting the males. I wanted to see strong, independent girls and women. Ginny came close, but never got the chance. Hermione remained in Harry and Ron's shadows. And I'll climb off my soapbox before this turns into a feminist critique of Harry Potter.

Karen
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jaclyn Dolamore on July 23, 2007, 12:45 PM
I don't think there is anything at all wrong with being a devoted wife and mother either!!  I didn't mean to imply that; or that there was anything wrong with being brainy (I have some definite Hermione traits myself for goodness sake), or flaky like Luna, who is one of my favorite characters in the series.

BUT...

I just felt like the female characters mostly fit into one of the established "types" for female characters and were almost always overshadowed by the male characters.  Hermione was certainly, as someone said, the "rock" of the book, and I think she'd really grown beyond being the know-it-all brainy girl of the early books.  But I would really liked to have seen more of the girls.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jaclyn Dolamore on July 23, 2007, 12:46 PM
I can see him possibly letting Teddy go to Andromeda (she didn't die, right?), since she'd just lost her daughter (and possibly her husband, though I might be making that up).

Yeah, Ted Tonks died...  I, too, figured that Andromeda probably raised Teddy.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: JustWrite on July 23, 2007, 12:55 PM
Here's a toast to JK! She has created a classic, that I am certain will stand the test of time.
She has gotten an entire generation to READ.
And countless more to write. Among those I count myself. (although I'm older than the genius herself)

I havealways written, but never with such singleminded purpose as when I picked up a pen four years ago after finishing book 5. She has been my inspiration. And now two finished books (neither published) and deeply engrossed in my third, I raise my glass to this brilliant woman for showing us storytelling at it's best. Maybe not the actual writing craft, but the PLOTTING. God, I love her. She's the real hero for me!!!

I read the book in a day and a half as if I was under an Imperius Curse. And yes...one of my favorite lines was the last thing Dumbledore says to Harry before he comes to and must play dead, "just because it's in your head doesn't mean it's not real." I felt this was a personal message to all of us out here. To believe in the power of our imaginations. To love our characters as she has loved hers.

I was awed the way she revisited all her old books through Harry's own wistful feelings and adventures. It was as if she was bidding them all good bye.

One of my favorite parts was definitely when Molly aced Lestrange. My next favorite part was when Kreacher lead the charge for all the house elves. I never thought I would love Kreacher!! I did not shed a tear for Snape. I'm just pleased Dumbledore's trust in him was not misplaced. She had ME fooled and I am so impressed with that. Saddest part: Dobby's death. So well done, to have Harry dig the grave without magic. It really showed the true measure of the man he'd become. That he had a chance to see his parent's pride in him..also satisfying. And the moment Harry reunites with Dumbledore and he says, "Oh you wonderful boy, you brave, brave man!" That was an high point. Here was Dumbledore telling Harry that Harry was a better man than he. I loved that Dumbledore was truly smarter than Voldemort in the end and that Harry had the chance to demystify Voldemort by simply calling him Tom Riddle. Loved that!!!!

Regrets? i would have liked a little more heat between Ginny and Harry. I mean, yeesh. Oh, hello...nineteen years later we have three little Potters?

I would have liked to see Draco be either remorseful or resetnful or something. And I would really like to know what the heck Harry was doing for 19 years. Writing his memoirs???  :)

Yes.. I predict we have not seen the end of little Teddy the werewolf with the very famous godfather. Nothing JK does is incidental. Why even have him exist, kill off his parents and make Harry his godfather? She didn't say she was going to RETIRE, did she? Or that Harry would never make a cameo appearance in another book.

So here's to the genius. Now JK, let's see you do a Bill Gates and put some of that genius money to "the greater good." Like building schools in Africa. Or libraries in Afghanistan. Or just helping satmp out illiteracy worldwide. You have plenty of time on your hands, now.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 23, 2007, 12:57 PM
Well...Snape might have been Lily's best friend for some of her growing up years, but at the same time, he wasn't an emotionally healthy individual. He was another one of the damaged kids who was raised without love, and Lily was maybe the one person who treated him normally, who loved him like a friend, which made him idolize her to a point that wasn't very healthy. At the same time, though, he was so desperate for love and respect at large that he kept going on with the Death Eaters, never realizing until too late that they were incapable of giving him anything normal and nourishing. There were a lot of things feeding off of each other with Snape; he never was a happy person, and most of it wasn't his fault. But I don't think things would have been magic if Lily had married him, either. Between James and Snape, Lily definitely made the better choice. It's just extremely tragic that Snape was never able to be emotionally healed, and all I can hope is that something good happens to him in "the next great adventure" (ie, death, to cite Dumbledore) to heal him/compensate. (Yes, I'm taking these characters waaaay too seriously! Sheesh--I'm worrying about them in their afterlives!)

And speaking of relationships, I was also very much hoping Ginny would play a significant part. I have a hard time with her being the love of Harry's life, yet hanging out in the background when he's doing the hardest/most significant thing of his life. That is my only big complaint in the whole series. I don't think the females play a secondary role at all--in fact, I find it extremely refreshing to find characters who are smart, willing to sacrifice to fight against Voldemort, and don't feel it's second-best to also have seven children. Sure, the female characters support the male ones here. But the male ones support the female ones, too. Being smart and heroic, and being supportive of others, are not mutually exclusive, even though it seems that way in books sometimes. I didn't feel that Hermione was always in Ron's shadow--in fact, she does quite a few things in the series (and this book), while Ron sits behind in the hospital wing or wherever. But yes, the fact that Ginny was never actively on stage much rather bothered me.

I assume Teddy lived with his grandmother (where he was already living)--since he did have relatives who wanted him, wouldn't it make more sense for him to live with them than a godfather? I concede I don't really know how godparenting works in Britain.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jen on July 23, 2007, 01:18 PM
I often see movies and tv shows or read books and get miffed because of the lack of strong female characters.  I can't tell you how many rants I've gone on about the CW now that they're replacing Gilmore Girls and Veronica Mars with Gossip Girl, and all of their supernatural or "hero" themed shows have guy leads (including a new one next season), and as much as I enjoyed the latest Ocean's Eleven movie, I hated it that the only female in the entire thing was characterizated as both a bitca and a skank, and everyone else (including all the members of the winning team) were male.  As a reader and a viewer, I'm definitely sensitive to that kind of thing, and I love girl power as much as anyone.  That said, I didn't have ANY problems with Harry Potter.  Hermione was and is, at many points in time in the series and in the final book, the strongest of the three.  Her kindness and compassion is what compels Harry to treat Kreacher well, and Harry's kindness towards the house elves is one of the things that other characters note as setting him apart from other wizards.  She's the one who packed their things and planned ahead for their journey, the one who stuck by Harry when the going got tough (even when Ron did not), and she was one of two people who Harry really wanted to see after it was all over.  In this book, more than any other, she was every bit as much Harry's friend as Ron was, and she was a heckuva lot more loyal.  Don't even get me started on the fact that she stood up to TORTURE, survived the Cruciatus curse, and managed to keep her wits about her enough to lead Bellatrix astray, even under extreme duress.  She knew- more than Ron, I think- what supporting Harry was going to cost, and she even gave up her FAMILY and erased their memories of her to go with Harry.  She was on the front lines until the very end, fighting Bellatrix along with Luna and Ginny.  She's smart and brave and can kick butt when she needs to, and Rowling makes it clear that Harry wouldn't have survived or been victorious without her. 

Just because we didn't get the archetypal sassy, sarcastic, butt kicking warrior girl doesn't mean that the girls we did get are weak.  Hermione DEFINITELY isn't.  Mrs. Weasley took Bellatrix down, where countless others had failed.  Lily Potter was strong enough to really try to be there for Snape, year after year, until she knew it couldn't go on any longer, and she sacrificed her life for Harry, and in doing so, took Voldemorte down the first time.  It wasn't James who did that- though it's clear he loved them, too- it was Lily.  As for Ginny, she may have spent most of her time off screen, but it's clear that offscreen, she was kicking as much booty as ANYONE.  Everything that was going on at Hogwarts, she was in the middle of it.  She and Luna were every bit as instrumental as Neville in Dumbledore's Army, and she risked being tortured by the sadistic Death Eater teachers with each and every move.  In this book, it seems clear that INSIDE of Hogwarts is just as dangerous a place to be as out.  Luna was kidnapped, but remained strong and sweet- and Mr. Ollivander credits her with getting him through the experience. 

Strong females come in every shape and size.  To me, saying that Harry Potter didn't have strong female characters is narrowing the scope of what it means to be a strong female to a very narrow description.  We might not have had a Buffy, but from my viewpoint, we darn well had strong females of all shapes and sizes, every bit the equals of the men in the story.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: buglady5 on July 23, 2007, 01:24 PM
If any of you read the NYTimes review (which was published BEFORE the book was released), JKR was quoted as saying that this was, in fact, the end of HP books, but that she wasn't closed to the idea of more spin-off books later - much later down the road.

Was it just me, or was the last line of the whole book ringing in anyone else's ears as the first line of the spin-off, in which HP might be a minor character:

"The scar had not pained Harry for nineteen years.  All was well."

Sounds like a prophetic opening line to me!


buglady
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: JustWrite on July 23, 2007, 01:55 PM
Read my post..
JW

It SURE does!!!

YAY!!!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 23, 2007, 01:57 PM
Just because we didn't get the archetypal sassy, sarcastic, butt kicking warrior girl doesn't mean that the girls we did get are weak.  Hermione DEFINITELY isn't. 

I actually agree with this. I'm so tired of tough-talking, snarky, butt-kicking women who think violence equals strength. I just wish that Ginny was right there with Harry, more important to the plot, but then I suppose she would clash with Hermione for that role. Still.... there's something about all the females supporting the males I don't quite like. I definitely don't mean that providing support is bad. Certainly not. To me, it seems like they're locked into feminine roles they can never transcend from. But--and this is a big but--I still love these books. I don't dislike the female characters. I don't want to pick them to pieces in the name of feminist debate. I've had enough of that since the last college class I took.

Karen
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jaclyn Dolamore on July 23, 2007, 02:29 PM
I think perhaps I'm not being clear enough...  I actually really don't need to see more a** kicking from the girls, or traditional strength.  The girls in the story definitely display strength of many kinds.  I have never liked or identified with the kind of girls who just kick butt and take names and make snappy comments and never cry.  Not that there's anything wrong with that kind of character either--it's just not my type. 

It's actually more like "coolness" factor I'd like to see more of.  Which is all a matter of opinion, for sure.  But I feel like most of the coolness factor went to the boys.  Like the Marauders (Pettigrew aside).  Snape.  Fred and George.  These are the characters who have "It", to me, whether I like them or not--and I'm no big Snape fan, here, but I'll admit he's got some coolness factor.  I don't feel like they have female equivalents.  It's in the realm of "quirky side characters", not whether or not Hermione was an equal to Ron and Harry--I'll easily agree that she was; in many ways I thought she was the toughest one, yet always believably female.

I think I really like Luna because, to me, she's one of the only girls that has that elusive quality I'm looking for--a likable quirkiness that makes me remember her.  Like I said, this part is all a matter of opinion.  Some people hate Luna; some people might not think the male characters I listed are particularly cool.  That's all I'm talking about, I'm just saying.

That, and the fact that there are simply FEWER female characters of note. 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on July 23, 2007, 05:08 PM
Okay, I've never gotten into taking a Harry Potter book apart much, so I admit I skimmed this discussion in order to get to the important stuff--my opinion. (grin) I'm kidding, I'm kidding!
My favorite part was the Ron/Hermoine thing. Sure, I knew it was coming, but it was cute and well-handled and I'm a sucker for good romance. (grin) Best line for me was Harry when Hermoine's flung herself at Ron at last..."Oi! There's a war going on here!" Cracked me up. (grin)
Yeah, Ginny was a little disappointing.
And oh man, why Fred? What happened to George without him? That one was the most depressing part of the whole thing...(sigh)
AMY
Cool book, though!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: JustWrite on July 23, 2007, 06:24 PM
I think it would be imprinted with all four houses! (clever, leeth!) Hail JK...I feel like thanking her for all she's done for me.
That ability, the ability to pull strands together is what I admire most about her writing, AND I think what inspires me most as a writer. I love a great plot!
The world she has created is one of the greatest masterpieces of all time. Many lesser books have sold! I take solace in that.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KateMessner on July 23, 2007, 08:04 PM
I'm done.  And I'm exhausted.  And I loved it.  And I'm so happy to have this discussion to read tonight after I finished because my 11-year-old, who finished BEFORE me, has already gone to bed.  There were so many parts of this book that I loved, so many great lines. 

I was glad that Snape turned out to be loyal to Dumbledore.   Not so much because I liked Snape, but because I didn't want Dumbledore to be wrong. I'm pleased (and okay, a little smug, too) that I was right about Snape killing Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders.  I wasn't bothered by the revelations about Dumbledore as others were, because I think a great character without flaws loses some of his reality.  To me, it made Dumbledore more heroic, more real, to know that he had weaknesses and acknowledged them.  Dumbledore, you'll remember, told Harry in the first book that our choices in life are what define us.

I had suspected since Book Six that Harry himself was one of the Horcruxes, but this line in Chapter 6 of DEATHLY HALLOWS confirmed it for me.  When they were discussing Horcruxes and the diary, Hermione said, "You're in trouble if you get too fond of or dependent on the Horcrux." 

One of the speakers at Vermont College's Special Event day last weekend (I can't remember which one...sorry) talked about the Harry Potter phenomenon and the future of these books, acknowledging that they'll never be read the same way again because the sense of waiting...the suspense...will be gone.  Just as we can't appreciate Dickens in the way his contemporaries did, future readers may love Harry, but not with the same fervor and anticipation that we all felt Friday night.  I am thankful to have been a part of it.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on July 23, 2007, 09:26 PM
Quote
If Ginny is a really powerful witch and definitely Harry's match, why isn't she alongside him, just as important to the plot? It almost seems like Ginny could be in a coma for the duration of Deathly Hallows and it wouldn't make any difference. Yes, she's helping by being in Dumbledore's Army, but she's just one of many. Where's her turn in the spotlight? Even Dobby and Neville got their chances.

I totally agree because I was expecting a bigger role from Ginny in this book than she played - especially at the end (although I'm all for Molly Weasley being the one to take down Bellatrix - it was unexpected and fun!) and I was really disappointed that she didn't.  But from all the information we get about her from the other books we do know that she is definitely a powerful witch.

I'm sorry but I just don't see any sexism in Harry Potter at all.  Sure the guys were drooling over the Veela's but the girls went crazy for Viktor Krum in the same way.  I personally loved all the female characters and felt there presence in the novels was as strong as the males.  Just because Harry (the lead) was male but look at Ron and Hermoine, not Harry and two other boys.  Harry happily put girls as equals to him and it definitely wasn't a book of all the boys out having adventures while the girls sit at home and knitted.  They told Ginny not too fight cause she was under age, not because she was a girl!  (still I was definitely expecting her to rebel against that.)

Quote
Okay, I've never gotten into taking a Harry Potter book apart much, so I admit I skimmed this discussion in order to get to the important stuff--my opinion. (grin) I'm kidding, I'm kidding!

hehe that made me laugh!! :dr

Speaking of under age ... poor little Colin Creevey :( 



Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on July 24, 2007, 05:05 AM
Thanks Kirsty. (grin)
Yeah, Colin was sad. (sigh)
And I never could see the thing with Viktor, myself...although it was funny when Harry was heading him away from Ginny. (grin) "Vat is the point of being a superstar Quidditch player if all the pretty girls are taken?" Or something like that.
AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: JustinDono on July 24, 2007, 09:26 AM
Okay, I've never gotten into taking a Harry Potter book apart much, so I admit I skimmed this discussion in order to get to the important stuff--my opinion. (grin) I'm kidding, I'm kidding!
My favorite part was the Ron/Hermoine thing. Sure, I knew it was coming, but it was cute and well-handled and I'm a sucker for good romance. (grin)

My friend and I were discussing the Ron/Hermione thing the other day and we both agreed that romance in general is handled very poorly in rowling's books.  I'm fine with seeing this coming a mile away, romance doesn't always have to be about surprise, but I think the timing and the manner of Ron & Hermione's kiss was kind of...tacked on.  The nature of Harry and Ginny's relationship seemed really superficial as well.  In book 5, she's portrayed as this very talented, brave, powerful witch, but Harry doesn't really fall for her until book 6 and more so in book 7, but she doesn't really do much.  It's just snogging or physical attraction, and by that age (16-17) a person is capable of starting to have a real emotional connection beyond something as shallow and superficial as "You're hot let's snog"

The epilogue, I thought, read like cheap fanfiction.  I know she wrote the thing years ago and probably had some emotional attachment to it, but this is a clear cut case of when to "Murder your darlings." She needed to bury that and make a new one.  It was too saccharine and hokey (ASnd Albus Severus Potter is a terrbile name.  So is Scorpius, come to think of it)

Aside from the cheap "romance," being a bit overlong at parts, and the epilogue, the rest of the book was great fun. 

Grungotts was fantastic, how it turned into such a fiasco.  The battle of hogwarts was likewise awesome.  And Neville...man, that guy needs his own series.  Three cheers for Neville! I really wanted him to be the one to put Bellatrix down.  Mrs. Weasly was okay though.   
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: JustWrite on July 24, 2007, 09:34 AM
Yeah...yay for Neville! A series for Neville!  :dancing:
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on July 24, 2007, 11:05 AM
I didn't like the epilogue either. Felt like someone else wrote it, like you said, Justin.
And in some slight defense of Rowling's approach to romance...she's writing this stuff for ages 5-adult, more or less. I agree it's not always well handles, but I'm not sure she could do it different and keep it okay for everyone. I mean, I thought Harry and Ginny seemed a bit superficial too, but what else could she have done? Have Ginny run away with Harry and Ron and Hermione? That would break up the Power Trio.
I know she doesn't want to write any more about these guys, and I TOTALLY don't blame her, but I'd have loved to see Harry's last year at Hogwarts. I'm sure that the past year wouldn't count for any of the students, seeing as they were being force-fed Dark Arts and all. I'm thinking the high muckety-mucks would call a total do-over on that one. (grin)
AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Toothpaste on July 24, 2007, 01:39 PM
I actually really liked that in the end Voldemort kind of killed himself.  It was really clever of Harry and a bit of a risk.  I thought it was way better than a fight to the death where then Harry would cleverly cast a spell under his arm or something.  We already got that kind of moment with Mrs Weasley and Bellatrix.  Needed a different death for Voldemort.  Liked it a lot!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Melody on July 24, 2007, 06:03 PM
Loved it! Cried at the death parts.

Only disappointments: Fred's death
                               Snape not having a 'braver' death where he died with dignity. But...I'm sure
                                she had her reasons for doing it that way.
                               
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on July 24, 2007, 06:23 PM
Quote
It's actually more like "coolness" factor I'd like to see more of...Like the Marauders

Ok now I get what you mean :)  Never really thought about it before but I would agree with that ... except that I would have to say that I don't see that being limited to the females ... I think Fred and George were the only current pupils at Hogwarts that matched the Marauders in 'coolness'.  Harry rocks but he's really more of a 'sweet' kid who just found himself in the situation he did rather than being cool like the Marauders were.  Does that make sense? 

Maybe the 'next generation' they'd find that coolness again ... led of course by Rose and Lily  :)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: jo_no_anne on July 24, 2007, 06:41 PM
Love Love Loved this book. I think it's one of my favorites of the series. My only problem with this book was something that happened in the letter Lily wrote to Sirius. Does a baby that's a little over one year old REALLY possess the motor skills and balance to ride and control a flying broomstick?
I know, I know. That's a horribly picky thing to say. Sorry. That just REALLY bugged me that Harry would be ZOOMING around the room when he's barely learned to walk without falling over.
I still love Harry Potter!!! :lov:
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 24, 2007, 10:38 PM
In any case, RIP Snape.  You're definitely one of the most complex and awesome characters to in recent history.  Many many kudos to JK Rowling for creating him!

I totally agree with all of your thoughts on Snape. He deserved a much better death than that. I felt somewhat cheated.

Karen
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MVP on July 24, 2007, 10:40 PM
Courtney, those are really interesting points.  I also thought that Snape was going to have his glorious moment to step into the line of fire, and I wish he had.  I think, though, that if Harry had been in a position to choose whether or not to trust Snape before he had solid proof, he would have chosen NOT.  I mean, he'd seen Snape murder Dumbledore.  It would take some pretty powerful proof to overcome that.

I don't think that J.K. meant to be too judgmental of Snape, or else she wouldn't have had Harry name his son after him.  In fact, I wonder if that's why she didn't give him a blatantly heroic death.  Maybe she thought that would have made it look like it was his only his death that Harry appreciated, rather than all the sacrifices he'd made during his role as double-agent.

Also interesting points about Lily giving up on Snape too early.  You made me want to go back and re-read that chapter.  I think, though, that Lily didn't accept Snape's apology because he only felt sorry for calling HER a mudblood.  He still didn't see why it was wrong to call OTHER people mudbloods.  Sort of the same character flaw that Dumbledore pointed out later, when Snape was frantic over Lily being in danger but didn't much care what happened to James or Harry.  He might have loved Lily more than she deserved, but he loved other people less than they deserved.

Gosh, I love this series.  There is so much there to discuss!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on July 25, 2007, 01:41 AM
I just finished reading the book... I'm either way too busy or way too slow a reader, I was shocked at how quickly some of you got through it!  I skimmed over some of the discussion in this thread but realized that, as is often true for me, going the overly-analytical route ruins a great story that touched my soul.  SO I stopped reading it, but I can't help adding my 1:30 am 2 cents.  And this is what I have to say.

Nitwit. Blubber. Oddment. Tweak. 

And thank you Ms Rowling, for creating these characters that so many love so dearly.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Cynthia on July 25, 2007, 06:29 AM
I finally finished this last night --days after my kids -- and I am quite satisfied. Mmmm.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: andracill on July 25, 2007, 08:15 AM
LOVE all the thoughts about Snape...I totally agree, and I like ideas about why his death/life are so embedded in me (and niggle at me so).

I've already rewritten (in my head) the end of the wedding to include Ginny defying everyone else and tagging along with the Trio...I may have to rewrite parts of the end for Snape's justice, as well.  More about that on my blog, if you're interested (or want to argue with me, he-he). :D

It's great to find a book and characters that have become such a part of our lives -- huge kudos to JK!!!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: sarah_create on July 25, 2007, 09:56 AM
My kids got to read it first.... but they gave no spoilers and I got it on Monday.  One of my favorite scenes is when they ride the dragon to break out of Gringotts Bank.  I enjoyed the book, but felt part of it was slow, compared to her normal style.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Z-cat on July 25, 2007, 10:22 AM
Today I put the dust jacket on Deathly Hallows, and stowed it up on the shelf at the end of the row.  And even though Smape was the character I was most curious about, and Fred's death was the worst moment of the whole series (for me) I think I'm going to miss Hermione most of all...

Did anyone else find it hard saying goodbye to the Dursleys? It was so weird... they are such wonderful villains, so perfectly awful and detestable, but they were right at the core of the story, really. Book one opens with them, and that's where Harry starts each adventure from there on. And he would never be the person he is if they hadn't raised him. It was really concrete for me, that this was the end of the road, when they walked out and you knew they were never coming back.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kim on July 25, 2007, 10:59 AM
Just finished... There are so many great posts here, I can't add to them, but I have some questions--can anyone help me out?

1. Voldemort's soul was fractured... and then the pieces destoryed... so how come he was still so "together" at the end? How come I thought that breaking the Horcruxes would kill him? He didn't even seem to notice...

2. Yuk! What was the flopping, tied up baby-like creature at King's Cross?

Good read! Feeling a little emotional about everything...
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: AooH on July 25, 2007, 11:09 AM
I think Voldemort was running on simply the physical and mental plane at the end of the book- he had been so callous with his soul that he didn't realize it was gone.
The flayed child thing was a fragment of Voldemort's soul, the part that was inside Harry.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 25, 2007, 11:18 AM
Yes, from the moment Dudley and Harry said goodbye, I knew the sad end was upon us. Sniff! Nice send-off, though.

The scarred baby was, I think, the bit of Voldemort's soul that he killed out of Harry. The general idea was for Harry to get rid of all of the Horcruxes first, then to do away with Voldemort. That way, the only soul left was the one in his body, and when that was gone, so was he. I liked how Harry was able to defeat him without turning into a killer himself.

From the point that Harry opens the snitch through the entire King's Cross chapter has got to be one of the hardest-hitting emotional moments I've read in a long time. I still feel like I'm carrying a bit of it with me.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kim on July 25, 2007, 11:27 AM
Got it! I guess my eyes were blurring near that end and I missed that the baby was Voldemort's soul. Thanks for the explanation.

I'm not certain I still understand that Voldemort could still be human and alive and standing (before the duel). It seems that he fractured his soul, then was nearly killed when he tried killing HP all those years earlier, and then spent 10 years regaining strength... But then the soul is destroyed, and there he is, still standing and ready to fight HP.

I'll let it go, though, because it's a great book and I enjoyed it (but felt that the first 1/2 was draggy... I mean, how long would it take three bright young wizards to come up with these plans? Three days, maybe... but months? They're smarter than that. Oh well...)

Kim
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: emykate03 on July 25, 2007, 07:34 PM
Ahhh. I'm satisfied. JKR is a genious when it comes to tying up a million loose strings. With about 100 pages left, I couldn't imagine how all the plot lines could come together and be resolved. She did it, though. I knew many characters would die. I'm relieved that Harry, Ron, Hermoine, Ginny, Luna and Neville lived. I thought Neville was a goner. The deaths were surprises but I don't think any of the losses were as hard as when Sirius or Dumbledore died. I loved when Harry dug Dobby's grave without magic.

My two minor disappointments: We saw less of Ginny than I would have liked and I wanted to know the characters' professions in the epilogue.

Still, I'm satisfied.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: sbk(linda) on July 25, 2007, 08:22 PM
Confession: I've actually read it twice already. I'm not ready for it all to end and my eyes keep welling up when I think about all the scenes that I'll never get to read for the first time.

My favourite parts: Harry's walk to the forest, Ron and Hermione's kiss and Harry's response, Dobby, the scene where everyone believes that Harry is dead. Is it wrong that I also loved all the scenes where Harry was tortured by the pain in his scar and his visions were back and everything felt a little out of control. I loved that in the end he learned to control it.

What I'd change: Seriously, Harry needed to give Ginny a giant kiss in the great hall when it was all over. A bit cliche, but isn't that what we were all waiting for?
                             Nothing else. It was perfection.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on July 25, 2007, 10:36 PM
Confession: I've actually read it twice already. I'm not ready for it all to end and my eyes keep welling up when I think about all the scenes that I'll never get to read for the first time.

My favourite parts: Harry's walk to the forest, Ron and Hermione's kiss and Harry's response, Dobby, the scene where everyone believes that Harry is dead. Is it wrong that I also loved all the scenes where Harry was tortured by the pain in his scar and his visions were back and everything felt a little out of control. I loved that in the end he learned to control it.

What I'd change: Seriously, Harry needed to give Ginny a giant kiss in the great hall when it was all over. A bit cliche, but isn't that what we were all waiting for?
                             Nothing else. It was perfection.

sbk- we are soul twins!!  :) :)  I agree 100% with all of the above.  I haven't read it for the second time yet though, partly because I was so emotionally drained by the first go round and partly because I'm not ready to read those scenes not for the "first time"... I worry some of the magic will wear off.  Hooray for Harry and a wonderful end to his story!!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Z-cat on July 26, 2007, 12:53 PM
Completely dorky info you can get if you spend too much time dwelling on that epilogue-

Harry was born in 1980 (I gather because his parents died in 81, on the tombstones)
That means it's only 1998 at the end of the last book. In the Epilouge, Harry would be about 36, and Ginny would be 35.
That also means that today, Harry would be 27, and already have a 3 year old son, a 2 year old son, and a daughter on the way.
He and Ginny didn't waste much time, did they?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: schmara on July 26, 2007, 01:03 PM
Wow. What else to say, huh? I was happy to see some of my theories confirmed, though! I reread all of the books beforehand, and I knew, in book 2, that Harry was a horcrux - it says so right at the end when he asks Dumbledor something like, "So Voldemort put a bit of himself in me, then?" BINGO! And, although I never loved Snape, I was so happy to see he was loyal to the end!

About the epilogue - in the Today Show interview, she said she had written a longer one with a lot more information in it, but it dragged on too much, so she had to make it short and sweet. For those who would like to know - Ron and Harry revamped the Auror department and Hermione is a big shot in the Magical Law Enforcement Dept. She doesn't say what Luna does - unfortunately. I love Luna!

I have loved being around as the story has unfolded!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 26, 2007, 01:44 PM
She did say something in one of the interviews I saw on the internet today (USA Today or the Today Show) about Luna. She's come to realize that a few of her father's beliefs were actually wrong, but she's still Luna--she's the magical equivalent of a naturalist, and goes around the world trying to discover new creatures.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Athena529 on July 26, 2007, 02:32 PM
I posted links to the interview mentioned above in this thread:

http://www.verlakay.com/boards/index.php?topic=20526.0;topicseen

I'm curious to know who the second character to get a "reprieve" was. Hagrid, perhaps?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: dinalapomy101 on July 26, 2007, 02:43 PM
Done!

I liked the way it all wrapped up, JK is a master at characters, and the plot was brilliant.  I liked how the scene where Ron's trying to "kill" the Horcrux turned into Harry telling Ron that he and Hermione are only friends -- like the scene between Leia and Han in Star Wars VI. :)  The fast-paced action of the last quarter was excellent.

My issues -- too long.  I know, I know, ppl like to stay in this story, but some parts in the first 3/4 dragged for me and it could've been wrapped up with a lot less words and repetition.  I didn't like how fast Snape was killed, I didn't like the info-dumping of his entire past and all the answers about him and Dumbledor's relationship, and I didn't like the info-dumping when Harry is "killed" the first time and talking to Dumbledore.  Seemed way too easy.

But overall I was satisfied with the way the series wrapped up.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Jen on July 26, 2007, 02:47 PM

That also means that today, Harry would be 27, and already have a 3 year old son, a 2 year old son, and a daughter on the way.
He and Ginny didn't waste much time, did they?

Well, James and Lily wasted even less time conceiving Harry!  Weren't they only twenty when he was born?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Z-cat on July 26, 2007, 05:05 PM
Yeah, apparently, there is no such thing as "college" in the wizarding world. Or, University, I suppose, since they're British.
Everyone just pairs up after high school. It is kind of sweet, though. All those childhood sweethearts.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Victoria on July 26, 2007, 06:37 PM
Fred's death affected me more deeply than any fictional character's death has affected me before.  I actually glaze over every once in a while and tear up when I remember that he's gone, that he died laughing and that George has to go it alone.  Weird, I know ... I ultimately realized that his death makes me want to carpe diem the heck out of life, but I still miss him.

For some reason, it hasn't kicked in for me that Snape is dead.  I read the death scene.  I teared up during his memories.  Still, as I read people's thoughts about the book and watch music videos about Snape and Lily, I keep forgetting that he actually died.

I think Snape's storyline was, and is, my favourite of the series.  And the most complex.  Books 1 to 6, I was convinced that James and Lily were the ultimate tragic couple, and I loved them together, and felt awful for how they were torn apart and torn from Harry.  All I saw was the love between them, the love that grew near the end of their Hogwarts years.

Now, though ... I still feel that Lily made the right choice.  I think Snape's soul was sick, to put it bluntly.  I think it was twisted and events coiled it even more tightly.  But James had his issues, too.  His verbal abuse of Snape had to be incredibly damaging, just as much, if not more so, as Snape's Dark Art attacks on him and his friends.

I remind myself every once in a while, Well, Sirius tried to lead Snape to his DEATH, and yet you love(d) him!  And I still love James, I still feel that Lily made the right choice, but that doesn't stop me from seeing the varnish stripped away from the Lily/James relationship.  Maybe that's what makes it so interesting, that the varnish vanished and you finally saw their relationship for something much closer to what it really was.

I enjoyed this book so much, right up there with 3, 5, and 6. :) Also, anyone who wants to see a neat music video about Snape and Lily, check this out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UCUhkpzcBcY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on July 26, 2007, 07:53 PM
The day after I finished the book I was driving around town with my kids and I was thinking about the Fred thing, and found myself getting all teary, wondering what would happen to George, how he'd handle it and everything. I had to sternly remind myself that it is a story and to stop thinking about it while I was driving! (grin)
Mayber it's just to comfort myself, but I think George and Fred must have discussed what would happen if one of them didn't make it. I mean, they were together all the time, shared a room and a business, and knew what they were getting into with Dumbledore's Army and the war, and then with George's injury--I think they must have had some really deep talks. I like to think that would help George at least a little.
As for the lack of college, with something like an Auror wouldn't there be a lot of training? And there are professors--they must have more education somewhere, to teach them how to teach and all that. I'm thinking there would be at least two years, minimum, of training for any of the major characters, job-wise, before they start really hooking up. Still leaves them pretty darn young, though!
AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: jodyjl on July 26, 2007, 09:29 PM
I had to wait until my kids finished the book, and so I finally managed to get through it last night around 1pm! I thought I was being such the good mother by waiting my turn.

Anyway - I truly enjoyed it. I think it may be my favorite yet, although Prizoner of Azkaban is a VERY close second.

Amy - that is so funny that you had those thoughts about Fred and George because I wondered some of the same things. In fact, in the epilogue, I keep asking JKR, what about George? What about George? What is he doing? Fred's death really bothered me. I keep wondering why it was necessary to kill him off. I was also bothered by both Lupin and Tonks dying without any explanation.

I enjoyed the back story of Dumbledore's life. He become such a three dimensional character in the last two books.

I found myself really missing Snape in this book. For such a big character, with such a huge unanswered question at the end of book 6, he played a very small part in book 7.  And I agree with others who mentioned that his death seemed so quick. I was thinking he would battle with Voldemort and die in that battle.

I think someone already mentioned this, but the best scene, in my opinion, was when Hermione and Ron finally kiss and Harry says, "OI! There's a war going on!" I laughed my head off! I also liked the book that Ron gives Harry on his birthday about dealing with women - very funny too!

Thanks, JKR for the ride!

Jody
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on July 27, 2007, 06:29 AM
Another bit I keep forgetting to mention, although I think someone else has, was Percy getting back together with his family, and Fleur trying to defuse the awkwardness by asking Lupin about the baby. I love him going "Here! I have a picture!" in the middle of a reunion in the middle of a war. (grin)
And is it just me, or do you guys totally think Hermione will hyphenate her name? I can just see an important-looking offfice with Hermione Granger-Weasley on the gold nameplate. And the office will be immaculate, of course. (grin)
There is a very serious possibility that I need a life.

AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 27, 2007, 07:16 AM
Oh I don't know, Amy--I thought I spotted you when I was at Flourish and Blotts the other day, didn't I?

By the way, if anyone wants to see what the Forest of Dean (where they picked up the sword) really looks like, here's a link: http://www.cinderfordbrassband.co.uk/tall-forest.jpg
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Ronni on July 27, 2007, 07:43 AM
Completely dorky info you can get if you spend too much time dwelling on that epilogue-

Harry was born in 1980 (I gather because his parents died in 81, on the tombstones)
That means it's only 1998 at the end of the last book. In the Epilouge, Harry would be about 36, and Ginny would be 35.
That also means that today, Harry would be 27, and already have a 3 year old son, a 2 year old son, and a daughter on the way.
He and Ginny didn't waste much time, did they?

If Ginny'd had her way, they'd have gotten it on on Harry's birthday.  My bf pointed that out to me and when I went back and re-read it, and yes, it seems to imply that Ginny had a very...special gift in mind for Harry, but they were interrupted by Ron.  Heh.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on July 27, 2007, 07:53 AM
I didn't read it that way, either, but you may have something there, Ronni...

AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 27, 2007, 08:06 AM
Oh I don't know, Amy--I thought I spotted you when I was at Flourish and Blotts the other day, didn't I?

By the way, if anyone wants to see what the Forest of Dean (where they picked up the sword) really looks like, here's a link: http://www.cinderfordbrassband.co.uk/tall-forest.jpg

Fabulous picture!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Karen K on July 27, 2007, 09:59 AM
If Ginny'd had her way, they'd have gotten it on on Harry's birthday.  My bf pointed that out to me and when I went back and re-read it, and yes, it seems to imply that Ginny had a very...special gift in mind for Harry, but they were interrupted by Ron.  Heh.

Ha ha! Now I'm going to have to reread that part...
Karen
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kelsey on July 27, 2007, 10:43 AM
I finally finished the book after taking my own sweet time.  It was nice knowing what to expect, yet still having fun discovering it for myself.

I got teary during Dobby's burial, when folks dressed him and said thanks.

I smiled at some funny, snarky parts, like "nutty as squirrel poo."

I felt more should've happened between Ginny and Harry.

I wanted eye contact between Harry and Snape's headmaster portrait (which I know wasn't even mentioned) with some sort of knowing and kind understanding.

I was glad to hear in an interview with JKR, that Harry and Ron where revolutionizing auroring and Her. was somewhere up top in the MOM.

Overall, a pleasing, satisfying read.  :yup
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Cassandra on July 27, 2007, 06:30 PM
Just home from vacation...I thought it was the best of the series. I loved it and am totally satisfied. And I am so glad that Snape was good and I don't care that hid death was not heroic, because his life was.

The only part that didn't work for me was the relationship between Harry and Ginny. I wasn't feeling it in this book so even in the epilogue I was left feeling cold about their relationship.

Dobby and Duddley made me cry. And then I cried at the end because it's over.

And then I cried because I'm so glad that I got to live through the release of the the books. There's something delightful about the anticipation of the next book, and drawing out the reading of the series over years. It's not quite the same as reading all seven books one after the other.

Does anyone else find that after reading HP they have HP dreams? I experienced this with the first book and it reccurs every time I read a new HP.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: buglady5 on July 27, 2007, 06:42 PM
Does anyone else find that after reading HP they have HP dreams? I experienced this with the first book and it reccurs every time I read a new HP.

Yes.  Most definitely.  Honestly, I've recreated and rewritten several scenes from HP7 in my dreams this week.  I wake up feeling the same way.  I can't believe it's over.  I don't want it to be.  Not unless I can give Harry an actual hug.  I think that's the only satisfactory closure there could ever be for me. 

I think I dreamt the most in the book (5, I think?) where Dumbledore was largely avoiding Harry.  I could totally relate to what Harry was going through, and I felt his pain every step of the way.  I understood his emotions when his friends didn't understand his temper or lack of patience, too.  I cried as much for him in that book as I did for Book 7.

My friend and I were talking about Harry today.  I asked her, in a non-commital way, "Would it be weird to be somewhat, sort of, attracted to Harry, now that's he's grown up and taken on the evil dark lord?"

Thought she was about to make fun of me when she said, "You mean like having a crush?  Umm...only if it would be weird to feel shameless attraction toward Snape!"  Then she turned beet red and couldn't look at me. :o

Yup.  I think it's fair to say that some of us are having HP dreams...


buglady
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on July 27, 2007, 08:22 PM
I can't STOP dreaming about Harry, Ron and Hermione!!  I read the whole series over just before starting Deathly Hallows, most intensely in the past 3 weeks or so (I read 5, 6 and 7 in that time), so EVERY night they're there!  I can't stop thinking about them during the day either, so I guess it makes sense.  Last night I had an awful dream about Dobby's burial, they were burying another girl killed by Voldemort right next to him.  It was weird and sad... I don't mind dreaming about them, but I would appreciate them a bit more on the pleasant side!!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: sbk(linda) on July 28, 2007, 01:48 AM
I've been dreaming about them all like crazy, too! I never remember the dreams, but I wake up feeling like they've been around all night long. It's kinda strange. It's so hard to let it all go. I did the same thing and read all the books together back to back before DH came out and I've been dreaming HP dreams for a month now. I love it, actually. I don't want them to stop.

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: eryan75 on July 28, 2007, 07:08 AM
Done, finally.   :snail:
Loved it too.   :lov:
Agree, the deaths at the end were too fast. :angel
JKR has a true gift in the way she words things...my favorite line:

pg 703 "..Harry, whowse heart was now throwing itself against his rib cage as though determined to escape..." 

I swear I could feel it. :eek5:

Cheers,
Erin
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on July 28, 2007, 01:37 PM

pg 703 "..Harry, whose heart was now throwing itself against his rib cage as though determined to escape..." 

I swear I could feel it. :eek5:

Cheers,
Erin

AGREED Erin!  That whole scene from the second he found out he had to die to standing in front of Voldemort I could have BEEN Harry I was so sucked in.  My heart was pounding exactly like that and I was shaking and sobbing the whole way!  Some of the best writing I have ever read.

I was actually surprised to find out Harry was indeed a Horcrux... it had been so overly predicted that I was certain it WOULDN'T be so... but there you go, most of the "surprise" twists were predicted by someone I guess... it's a big Harry Potter obsessed world out there! :)  I was least surprised by the Snape/Lily connection.  Once I heard someone guess that, I thought that would be the absolute only way Snape could be even remotely good. 

I think it's odd how people call him a hero now.  I still strongly disliked him even at the end (though I teared up at the "look at my eyes" part along with everyone else).  I pitied him to be sure, and he was definitely brave... but a hero?  Not so much.  More like a sad, twisted man who never managed to recover from the injuries to his soul in early life.  I thought it was very thought provoking how the theme of love being the true saving magic, the channel of real grace, came through here... his love for Lily was his only thread left to his humanity. 

Funny to me how some so-called Christians can call the books a "vision from demons" when the clear central theme is saving grace through sacrificial love, first Harry's mother for him and then Harry himself for his friends.  Interesting how the point can get missed when one gets hung up in doctrine and fear.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Alison A on July 28, 2007, 03:36 PM
Themes I loved:
miracles and magic
second chances
gifts, and yet the importance of our choices--such a very big theme
hope
love

Cheers to Harry Potter--the Boy Who Lived!

It's been tough staying away from this thread. I'm in a Harry Haze right now, having just finished. This sums up how I feel, right now. I'm still not myself--the journey was immense and fulfilling.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Michelle DP on July 28, 2007, 05:19 PM
Got it! I guess my eyes were blurring near that end and I missed that the baby was Voldemort's soul. Thanks for the explanation.

I'm not certain I still understand that Voldemort could still be human and alive and standing (before the duel). It seems that he fractured his soul, then was nearly killed when he tried killing HP all those years earlier, and then spent 10 years regaining strength... But then the soul is destroyed, and there he is, still standing and ready to fight HP.

I'll let it go, though, because it's a great book and I enjoyed it (but felt that the first 1/2 was draggy... I mean, how long would it take three bright young wizards to come up with these plans? Three days, maybe... but months? They're smarter than that. Oh well...)

Kim

I think Voldemort had a tiny bit of his soul left, keeping him alive, and that portion couldn't be killed until all the hidden portions had been killed off. Also, I thought the thing in King's Cross was Voldemort himself. That was Voldemort's future, the only bit of him left should he die. That is why Harry encouraged him to feel remorse and heal his soul before the end of the duel. The thing in King's Cross startion was incapable of boarding a train and going on, meaning that Voldemort would be stuck in Limbo forever. ( Just my interpretation.)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on July 28, 2007, 05:47 PM
Well said Michelle, that is how I interpreted it as well.  Interesting your thoughts about its inability to get on a train and go 'on', makes total sense, I hadn't thought that much about it.  Though I also realized the 'baby' on the floor was the part of Voldemort that was left inside of him, since it was clear when Harry 'came to' that Voldemort had also been knocked out for the same period of time. 

I read that someone didn't like that Voldemort wasn't killed by Harry in the end, but by his own curse- conversely, I thought that was perfect and how it always should have been.  JK made it clear throughout the story that killing made your spirit unwhole.  Harry didn't kill Wormtail when he could have, which turned out to save him and kill Wormtail in the end.  The same thing happened with Voldemort.  Harry's willingness to sacrifice himself to Voldemort without a fight is what gave him the ultimate certain triumph over him in their final battle- and Voldemort, like Wormtail, ended up killing himself.  Perfect poetic justice, beautifully written.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Michelle DP on July 29, 2007, 08:37 AM
I liked the way it ended too, Mandy, for the same reasons. I was a little disturbed by Harry, Ron, and Hermione using unforgivable curses, but I am glad that they didn't actually use the killing curse. It was nice to see Harry make it through with his soul intact, and I liked the fact that Riddle killed himself, especially considering that is what he had been doing all along--literally tearining himself apart in his quest for immortality.

I have enjoyed reading the different views on Snape. I must admit that I am in awe of the brilliance of that one character. He is so complex! The beauty of Snape is that he is not a good person. He is mean, resentful, unforgiving, and slightly sadistic (think of his treatment of Neville). However, he has two redeeming passions--his love of Lily, and his devotion to Hogwarts. I don't think that it matters whether or not Lily deserved his devotion; it was only important that it became Snape's saving grace. It made Snape a better person than he was--not wonderful, but better. Also while I agree that his obsession seemed creepy at first, I think it needed to be that powerful to drive Snape to the lengths that it did. Snape used himself up protecting Harry and Hogwarts (and he didn't even like Harry). He tore his own soul apart by killing Dumbledore at his request. Granted Dumbledore was already dying, but you could tell that it still cost Snape to do it. The courage of the man was incredible. His dying act was to give Harry the information he needed to defeat Voldemort. Despite all that, he remained a flawed, unpleasant person. I know people were upset that Snape didn't die a hero's death, but Snape didn't need a hero's death. He only needed to accomplish his task.

I didn't have any problem with Harry giving his second son the middle name of Severus. He obviously appreciated Snape's bravery, and I think he didn't want Snape to be lost and forgotten. I don't think it meant that he liked Snape, but he understood him and honored him for what he had done. Remember he saw himself and Snape as somewhat the same--the abandoned boys of Hogwarts. I also think it is a telling thing that Albus was the only one who inherited Lily's eyes.

I am happy that Harry did not remain at Hogwarts as a teacher or headmaster. I think it shows that he is whole enough and strong enough the move on from the school into the world. Hogwarts was home for Harry; it's important that he could leave it.

Overall, I liked the book, and I admire JKR for being able to write it. As a parent, I wish that she hadn't crossed over from MG to YA in the course of the series. My nine-year-old is reading the first book and I devoutly hope she gains a few more years before she reaches the final book. As a writer, I admire the supreme accomplishment of having written so compelling a story full of complex characters and a world that draws the reader in. Wonderful job, JKR.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on July 29, 2007, 11:14 AM
As a parent, I wish that she hadn't crossed over from MG to YA in the course of the series. My nine-year-old is reading the first book and I devoutly hope she gains a few more years before she reaches the final book. As a writer, I admire the supreme accomplishment of having written so compelling a story full of complex characters and a world that draws the reader in. Wonderful job, JKR.

This is just in my experience as a nanny for many different children, not to say this is always true, but I think children are more aware of their reading levels than we think sometimes.  When I was a nanny for 4 girls, all 2 years apart, it was interesting to see how the oldest (9.5 at the time) devoured the first 3 books and lost interest in finishing Goblet of Fire somewhere in the first third.  She finished it and the other books this year (she is 12 now).  Her younger sister read the first two before stopping for awhile, and the next youngest sister enjoyed being read aloud to from the first, but got a little freaked out and realized she wasn't ready for the next just yet.  Other kids I have cared for have followed different patterns, depending on where they are coming from.  I care for 8 year old twins in a very wealthy family right now, and they are exposed to a lot of (maybe too much) culture as well as educated in private schools.  They have devoured all 7 books already.  I personally think this may be too early but... it's consistent with how they are being raised.  Interesting.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on July 29, 2007, 01:14 PM
Regarding the names of the children... Hugo, Rose and Victorie.... I couldn't help but make the Victor Hugo connection immediately... and I wonder if this poem has anything to do with it....        If not - it still seems appropriate, to me.  (and there is that JKR/Victor Hugo/Nicholas Flamel connection...)

THE GRAVE AND THE ROSE

        by: Victor Hugo (1802-1885)

            THE Grave said to the Rose,
            "What of the dews of dawn,
            Love's flower, what end is theirs?"
            "And what of spirits flown,
            The souls whereon doth close
            The tomb's mouth unawares?"
            The Rose said to the Grave.
             
            The Rose said, "In the shade
            From the dawn's tears is made
            A perfume faint and strange,
            Amber and honey sweet."
            "And all the spirits fleet
            Do suffer a sky-change,
            More strangely than the dew,
            To God's own angels new,"
            The Grave said to the Rose.



I love that.  And think you may be on to something there.  Although it occurred to me that at the end of LOTR, Sam and his wife (now safe and content), named their daughter Rosie, so I wondered if there was a bit of an homage there.  And Dr. Who and LOST fans seem to think that Rose might come from the shows.

If it'd been Harry & Ginny, I'd suspect a family name (Lily and Petunia, after all, are in there somewhere). 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: sbk(linda) on July 29, 2007, 02:04 PM
Could it be possible that Rose and Hugo were Hermione's parents' names? They seemed familiar to me, but I wouldn't even have a clue which book they might be mentioned in. Or I could be totally wrong.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: laurenem6 on July 29, 2007, 02:48 PM
Is anyone else confused about the (American) cover of the book?  What scene was that supposed to be??  Is that coliseum thing supposed to be Hogwarts?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 29, 2007, 04:32 PM
I love that.  And think you may be on to something there.  Although it occurred to me that at the end of LOTR, Sam and his wife (now safe and content), named their daughter Rosie, so I wondered if there was a bit of an homage there.  And Dr. Who and LOST fans seem to think that Rose might come from the shows.

If it'd been Harry & Ginny, I'd suspect a family name (Lily and Petunia, after all, are in there somewhere). 

Someone on my livejournal suggested that there's a hybrid rose called "Father Hugo's Rose" - and since Hugo and Rose are "hybrids" (wizard/muggle) there could be something to that, too... but then where's the Victorie?  Until JKR tells us different, I'm sticking with the Victor Hugo poem (tee hee!)  It wouldn't seem to plausible to me, except for the Nicholas Flamel connection... so, who knows?  Only JKR right now!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Michelle DP on July 29, 2007, 05:26 PM
Someone on my livejournal suggested that there's a hybrid rose called "Father Hugo's Rose" - and since Hugo and Rose are "hybrids" (wizard/muggle) there could be something to that, too... but then where's the Victorie?  Until JKR tells us different, I'm sticking with the Victor Hugo poem (tee hee!)  It wouldn't seem to plausible to me, except for the Nicholas Flamel connection... so, who knows?  Only JKR right now!

I just took Victoire to be named for Victory. If she's in her last year at Hogwarts, then it's possible that Fleur found out that she was pregnant shortly after all of the death eaters were mopped up and everything returned to normal. She could have resolved to name the baby after their victory over Voldemort and the Death Eaters.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 29, 2007, 05:50 PM
I just took Victoire to be named for Victory. If she's in her last year at Hogwarts, then it's possible that Fleur found out that she was pregnant shortly after all of the death eaters were mopped up and everything returned to normal. She could have resolved to name the baby after their victory over Voldemort and the Death Eaters.

I agree with the victory idea...and I personally thought that's why the poem "The Grave & The Rose"  worked so well... it's really about victory over death - and that's pretty much what Harry discovered - his own personal victory over the fear of death for sure. After all - he was willing to go back and finish the fight...even though he didn't have to...and he still could have been killed.   :)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on July 29, 2007, 07:39 PM
Rowling confirmed in a recent interview that Victoire was the oldest daughter of Bill & Fleur. 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: traceymcox on July 29, 2007, 10:11 PM
How did the sword end up in the sorting hat in the end?  I thought the goblin still had it!

I think Dumbledore said it best when he told Harry that only a TRUE griffindor could pull that out of the hat.

I mean Nevil has had his doubts about belonging in Griffindor, just as Harry has, but not THIS puts it hands down that Nevil is in the right house.
Courage, honesty, and bravery.

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2007, 07:43 AM
Is anyone else confused about the (American) cover of the book?  What scene was that supposed to be??  Is that coliseum thing supposed to be Hogwarts?

I took it to be the final battle scene between Harry and Voldemort in the Great Hall, although I think it was purposely vague to keep people from knowing the location/circumstances.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Michelle DP on July 30, 2007, 08:28 AM
I've got a favorite line to post and I can't post it on the other thread because it contains a plot point so I thought I would share it here.

"He felt like asking them to show a little more respect for his privacy as they all began stripping off with impunity, clearly much more at ease with displaying his body than they would have been with their own."  :dr
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: HB on July 30, 2007, 11:03 AM
OK, just got back from vacation and finishing the book at 2 a.m.. So many different thoughts. Yes, I loved it, but (and I was afraid this would be the case) overall, I’m not as satisfied as I wanted to be.  (Please don’t throw any killing curses at me.)

ANTICIPATION:
Most of the surprising twists had already been guessed:
- Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him
- Snape “loved” Lily
- HP was a horacrux

Other tantalizing hints fizzled. Harry’s muggle family were no more than muggles. Petunia had no deep dark secrets. Her knowledge of dementors came from eavesdropping. No ‘Wow’ moment there.

I’m happy that Neville took down the snake. That puts him right up there with HP, Ron, and Herm. But also in the same company as Crabbe, or Goyle or whichever one it was that accidentally burnt the tiara. So I guess destroying a horacrux isn’t that special after all. Based on what had been hinted at, I expected a specific special role for Neville, not just as one of the leaders of the DA.

And then of course there’s my biggest letdown…

SNAPE:
After book 6, I was very pro-Snape. But that was based on the promise that there was more to him, more to the story.  But in the end, Snape didn’t love Lily by any definition of mine. Love means wanting to see the other person happy, even if it’s not with you. That Snape was willing to let Harry and James die, as long as Lily was saved is useless. He would have preferred Lily alive and devastated than dead and happy that she had saved her son. Obession? Yes. Love? No. Fine, he was a fascinating complex character. But don’t go naming your kids after him, and go thinking he’s brave and made sacrifices. What sacrifices? He’d already lost the only person he ever cared about (in his own twisted way) In his role of double agent, he stuck with Volde when the Deatheaters were in charge and stuck with the good guys when they were in charge. What’s so dangerous about that? He didn’t sacrifice friends by pretending to side with Volde because he no longer had any friends to lose. I don’t even think it was that difficult for him to kill Dumbledore. If JK wanted to show this as the ultimate hard choice that Snape had to make, he should have shown Dumbledore taking little Snapey under his wing and showing him the love he had never gotten from his parents.


DEATHS:
I am impressed that with all the speculation, every death was still unexpected. Whoa!
- Never even considered Hedwig or Dobby. So sad! Hedwig was so early, it was an extra shock. Everyone giving Dobby articles of clothing…waaaa!
- Snape was a given but the way he died was a shock. Maybe that’s why JK did it that way. When that scene started, I thought that Volde suspected Snape but instead he killed his loyal servant.
- Mad-Eye: No one has mentioned him, but I found it disturbing that his body was never found. I guess the desecration that Umbridge did to his body by taking the eyeball was supposed to make things definite for us. But the more I think about it, the more think that this was deliberate on JK’s part. Real life doesn’t always have closure. Children disappear. Bodies aren’t identified in wartime. It’s disturbing, but it’s real.
- After George’s ear, I thought the twins were safe. Their connection of identicalness (is that a word?) was broken and that was to be their symbolic loss for the series. Yeah, she fooled me on that one.
- guess we should have anticipated Lupin and Tonks right after Harry was made godfather

RANDOM THNGS I LOVED:
-   Kreacher – the turnaround was absolutely brilliant and that Hermione was able to enlighten Harry
-   Radio broadcast
-   The kiss, and especially, Harry’s reaction
-   Although I wasn’t crazy about the epilogue, I’m relieved that this is how she ensured that the series couldn’t be continued. Give me a cheesy epilogue over a dead Harry any day.
-   Bank heist: very cool
-   Irony that Hermione is the one forced to attend the mudblood hearings
-   The fact that Harry is a better man than all those before him (including Dumbledore) who have tried to possess the deathly hallows
-   The complexities added to Dumbledore’s character and the fact that JK makes an attempt to justify Dumbledore not giving Harry more information in all seven books (necessary for plot but seemingly unrealistic for character) with Aberforth’s explanation that he was raised with secrets and lies.

RANDOM INCONSISTENCY:
What’s with Draco trying to grab Harry at the end? He refused to ID Ron and Hermione earlier – a dangerous lie that would quickly have been discovered – but then without being forced to by Volde he acts of his own accord to take down Harry. Huh?

DREAMS:
Oh yeah, except last night it morphed into what happened to Buffy once her series ended. Weird mind I have.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: LindaB on July 30, 2007, 12:41 PM
Did anyone watch JK Rowling on Dateline last night? I enjoyed the interview. I just wish I could have heard more of it. I know they probably edited out some great stuff that would be of interest to us but might not be as interesting to the casual viewer.

I loved how Rowling's sister told her if she killed Hagrid she would never forgive her. Apparently Hagrid was at some point considered for death but Rowling wanted that scene at the end with Hagrid carrying Harry's body back to the castle. She chose Fred over George because he was always the leader in their escapades.

I went back last night and read the end of book six. Dumbledore's death scene takes on so much more meaning now that I know some of the details. I found it even more moving that I did the first time I read it.

LindaB
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on July 30, 2007, 01:03 PM
She had a live chat on bloomsbury.com today, too. My son and I signed on, but our questions were not among the 120,000! questions receive that she answered. That was okay, as the questions she did answer were pretty cool. I think it's already archived if you want a look.

And yes, Michelle, that was a fabulous line!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on July 30, 2007, 01:22 PM
If you go to MSNBC, and click on the Harry Potter front page link on the left (I kid you not), then scroll to the bottom of that page, there are links for all the interviews she did -- Meredith Viera, Dateline, etc.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: LindaB on July 30, 2007, 02:07 PM
According to CNN story about the chat with Rowling, Ron doesn't work with Harry, instead he works with George in the joke shop and Ginny played on an all female Quidditch team until she had kids.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/books/07/30/potters.afterlife.ap/index.html

Linda
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: laurenem6 on July 30, 2007, 02:40 PM
Mad-Eye: No one has mentioned him, but I found it disturbing that his body was never found.

Yeah, I thought that, too.  Usually in a book/movie, when you can't find the dead body, it's not really dead.

After George’s ear, I thought the twins were safe. Their connection of identicalness (is that a word?) was broken and that was to be their symbolic loss for the series. Yeah, she fooled me on that one.

I thought the exact same thing!


ETA: That article conflicts with another article I read that said how Harry and Ron both turned into Aurors and revolutionized the corrupt Ministry.  It didn't say anything about George.  Did she change her mind or what?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: buglady5 on July 30, 2007, 06:15 PM
According to an article that appeared on Yahoo News today, JKR said that George and Ron teamed up to run the joke store, and that Harry and Kingsley worked as aurors.
Luna apparently, became a famous naturalist, and married someone named Newt, who was a famous wizard who traveled the world to discover new creatures.

buglady
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 30, 2007, 06:39 PM
According to MSNBC and the Meredith Vieria interview -
excerpt from MSNBC website... "Harry, Ron and Hermione
We know that Harry marries Ginny and has three kids, essentially, as Rowling explains, creating the family and the peace and calm he never had as a child.

As for his occupation, Harry, along with Ron, is working at the Auror Department at the Ministry of Magic. After all these years, Harry is now the department head.

“Harry and Ron utterly revolutionized the Auror Department,” Rowling said. “They are now the experts. It doesn’t matter how old they are or what else they’ve done.”

Meanwhile, Hermione, Ron’s wife, is “pretty high up” in the Department of Magical Law Enforcement, despite laughing at the idea of becoming a lawyer in “Deathly Hallows.”

“I would imagine that her brainpower and her knowledge of how the Dark Arts operate would really give her a sound grounding,” Rowling said.

Harry, Ron and Hermione don’t join the same Ministry of Magic they had been at odds with for years; they revolutionize it and the ministry evolves into a “really good place to be.”

“They made a new world,” Rowling said."

She goes on to talk about Luna and Neville, too - If you good JK Rowling and click on the msnbc link, there are several articles, including the complete text of the Meredith Vieria interview.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on July 30, 2007, 07:01 PM
One of my favorite lines, too, Michelle! I loved that part. IT's be hilarious in the movie. (grin)
AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on July 30, 2007, 11:13 PM
Quote
Is anyone else confused about the (American) cover of the book?  What scene was that supposed to be??  Is that coliseum thing supposed to be Hogwarts?

I've thought about this too and have no answers!  I don't think it looks or reflects the great hall in any way.  I'd be interested to find out from the illustrator what it is actually supposed to be.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on July 31, 2007, 07:58 AM
part of transcript of JKR interview July 29th in Edinburg on Dateline (source: msnbc)

"Jo Rowling fills in some of the blanks in the epilogue for her fans.

Chelsea: In the end … you tell us that Neville is a professor at Hogwarts. What do-- Harry, Hermione, and Ron do?

J.K. Rowling: Harry and Ron utterly revolutionized the Auror Department in-- at the Ministry of Magic.  So they-- I mean, they are now the consummate-- they are experts.  It doesn't matter how old they are or what else they've done.

So Harry and Ron lead the way in recreating the new Auror Department.  And by the time-- 19 years later -- I would imagine that Harry is heading up that department, which is not corrupt in any way.  It's-- it's a really good place to be.  And Hermione …  I think she's now pretty high up in the Department for Magical Law Enforcement.

Where I would imagine that her brainpower and-- and her knowledge of how the dark arts operate would really give her a, you know, a sound grounding.  So they're all at the ministry but it's a very new ministry.  They made a new world."

Not sure where yahoo source came up with Ron working with George - but here JKR definitely says that Harry & Ron "lead the way in recreating the new Auror Department..."  and she says, "So they're all at the ministry but it's a very new ministry..."



Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: TinaMack on August 01, 2007, 10:13 AM
I just finished HP. Like some others, I wanted to savour the last book, so I resisted the urge to devour it too quickly ... as much as I could anyway.  :reading2:

I haven't read reviews of any HP books recently or in the past. I haven't lurked or discussed theories about the series or characters. I haven't been thinking about or getting terribly excited about the release of book seven. I approached The Deathly Hallows as someone who had read all the previous books once and could remember the main characters, basic plot lines and some sundry details.

For me, even though book seven was persistently dark, I was fully satisfied. A good old fashioned irreverent chuckle here and there would have been an improvement, IMO. Thank god the Weasley twins were in a couple scenes. I don't want to repeat what so many others have already said. I agree with much of what's been said here.

In an nutshell, Rowling did a fine job of fulfilling my expectations for both the book and the series.


Is anyone else confused about the (American) cover of the book?  What scene was that supposed to be??  Is that coliseum thing supposed to be Hogwarts?

I don't know if the American cover is the same as the Canadian cover. The front cover on mine is definitely the scene from the Lestranges vault at Gringotts. The cursed treasure is multiplying around Harry, Ron and Hermione, and a barely visible Griphook is clinging to Harry's back wielding the Sword of Gryffindor. 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Barbara Etlin on August 01, 2007, 01:41 PM
Basically I loved it. So, so good.

I'm glad that some of the themes hinted at in Half Blood Prince were developed so well: the racism/WW II thing, the horcruxes (which I didn't much like before; *now* it all makes sense), the use and misuse of power. Lots of depth there.

Some of the scenes were very cinematic (the breakout from Gringrotts--WOW!). I'll look forward to the movie, but I'll have to ask dh to warn me about certain other scenes where I'll have to close my eyes because they'll be too scary. (Like Chamber of Secrets).  ::)

A few of my predictions turned out to be true or true-in-a-way (hehe, Dumbledore made an appearance!) but there were still lots of surprises. Dobby! Kreacher! Hermione's activism and how Ron finally takes it seriously.

Here's something I'm too dense to figure out:  What is the strange object Harry sees when he visits with Dumbledore? That Dumbledore tells him not to look at too closely ?***

And an observation (courtesy of dh, who hasn't read the books but has seen the movies, and who heard my description of the horcruxes): The concept of the horcrux is similar to something in Star Trek. Not as a way to escape death or avoid your enemies, but the "a piece of your soul" thing, especially when done involuntarily. In Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, Spock dies without any Vulcans nearby to pass on his Katra to. When a Vulcan dies, his Katra has to be handed to another Vulcan. Lacking any Vulcans, Spock passes his Katra to Dr. McCoy, who doesn't realize it at the time.

And still more...I found lots of Christian allusion in this book. (I'm not Christian, by the way). How ironic that some Christians want Harry Potter banned, when it could be seen as another Narnia. Although, to be fair, this isn't obvious until Book 7.

I'll be rereading this one, for pleasure and to study it for writing techniques.

*** (Edited to add: I just read the thread above, and I've found the answer. Glad I wasn't the only confused reader.)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on August 02, 2007, 12:06 AM

I don't know if the American cover is the same as the Canadian cover. The front cover on mine is definitely the scene from the Lestranges vault at Gringotts. The cursed treasure is multiplying around Harry, Ron and Hermione, and a barely visible Griphook is clinging to Harry's back wielding the Sword of Gryffindor. 


Our cover looks nothing like that!  Yours sounds super cool, I want to see it!!  :reading2:  For an idea of what ours looks like check out sites like check the mugglenet or pottercast websites.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on August 02, 2007, 02:15 AM
The 'Canadian' cover is the UK cover ... it's the same one that we got her in Australia.  Actually from what I've seen everywhere in the world seems to have the UK cover except for America.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on August 02, 2007, 03:17 AM
 I really liked some of the past UK covers, but this one (which I have) makes me think, "Harry Potter and the Wheel of Fortune!!" Fuse#8 thought a nicer idea would have been to show the doe patronus in the forest (and having seen a picture of said forest, at the link I posted earlier, I quite agree). Ah, well.

Despite its ambiguity, I find the American cover beautiful. (Although I can never quite rid myself of the doctored version that appeared on the Blueboards somewhere, with Harry and Voldemort each holding a guitar in their outstretched hands...)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kim on August 02, 2007, 07:08 AM
FYI: Here are images of the two covers: http://gallery.the-leaky-cauldron.org/dh


Now that I've read the book, the US cover seems to be the exact moment where Harry is calling the Elder Wand and Voldemort's curse is backfiring. I had wondered about the fact that I couldn't see wands in the image.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: writermom on August 02, 2007, 07:22 AM
HB,

You said everything I wanted to say!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: TinaMack on August 02, 2007, 07:51 AM
I see what you mean about the American cover being ambiguous.

Kim, that's a good guess. You're right about the wands though. If Harry's dueling Voldemort with Draco's wand and the Elder wand is mid-air, we should still be able to see Draco's wand in Harry's hand...shouldn't we?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: HB on August 02, 2007, 08:20 AM
If you want to see all the covers, go to Google Images and search on "Deathly Hallows."

I don't like our Canadian/UK cover. I find it too cartoony for what amounts to a dark YA novel. Not to mention, you can figure out that at some point in the book, they break into Gringott's.  The U.S. cover is a better, but I still don't think it truly matches any particular scene from the book. I like the UK adult version, with the locket. It is relevant to the book, without giving away any spoilers. My favourite though, and I don't even know which country it's for, is a close-up of Harry's face, with blood running down it, looking very Christ-like.

And thanks, Writermom. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: TinaMack on August 02, 2007, 11:16 AM
I agree that the Canadian/UK cover isn't a great fit stylistically (although I didn't/don't consider it a spoiler), but I do like it better than the American cover image, which is ambiguous, relatively soft and flat, oddly framed in what looks like stage curtain legs, and depicts a Voldemort who is hardly fear-inducing. Plus, there's Voldemort's left hand...what's going on with that?

I like the UK adult cover best too. Maybe it's all a matter of marketing to different age groups. It makes sense to me that I would like the adult covers best.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on August 02, 2007, 02:03 PM
Personally I prefer the US cover as well (despite it making no sense to me) I still think the artwork is much better.  I have noticed though that the US and UK covers of many books (not just Harry Potter ones) are so different.  It is all for marketing and I think it's interesting that different cultures respond to different types of artwork.  So much for the saying 'Never judge a book by its cover'.

Not that it takes anything away from the book for me ... Harry rules!!   :dancing:
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on August 02, 2007, 02:49 PM
Thanks for posting the link, Kim.  I think I am on the side that prefers the American cover.  It seems obvious to me this is the moment where Harry is about to catch the elder wand and Voldemort is falling back in defeat.  Little details being incorrect don't bother me.  The enchanted ceiling accurately reflected the dawn sky, and as for the arches, they may not have been accurate in terms of the exact Great Hall, but brought to mind the whispering arch at the ministry Sirius disappeared through when he died.  I really like how this was portrayed in way that still didn't give away the very last moments. 

I was absolutely certain Harry had to truly die once he saw Snape's memory.  I walked through that forest with him believing it as much as he did!!  The cover art was the farthest thing from my mind at that part.  So congrats to both author and illustrator for such moving and effective work.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kim on August 02, 2007, 03:05 PM
These are hard to wade through, but here are links to covers from around the world: http://gallery.the-leaky-cauldron.org/category/363.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on August 02, 2007, 05:43 PM
That's so funny, Mandy--I never once believed Harry would actually die. I was mildly concerned there, but to me it was always the Luke Skywalker syndrome. The cool, semi-whiny, traumatized hero just doesn't die. Not in things of this magnitude, anyway. (grin)
Interesting how differently we read the same stuff, isn't it? (grin)
AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Kai on August 02, 2007, 10:24 PM
PW gave the link to the transcript for the online chat that Rowling did.

http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/default.asp?sec=3 (http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/default.asp?sec=3)

In this detailed online chat with Rowling she explains that Ron first helps George with the joke shop THEN a couple years (I think) later goes on to the Ministry to work in the Auror department.  Very plausible in a 19 year period, I think.

P
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Cassandra on August 03, 2007, 12:16 AM
What a wonderful chat transcript! Thanks for the link, P!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Barbara Etlin on August 03, 2007, 08:52 AM
In Publisher's Lunch today: Sales of DH are at 14 million, in just under three weeks.  :books:
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on August 03, 2007, 10:43 AM
PW gave the link to the transcript for the online chat that Rowling did.

http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/default.asp?sec=3 (http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/default.asp?sec=3)

In this detailed online chat with Rowling she explains that Ron first helps George with the joke shop THEN a couple years (I think) later goes on to the Ministry to work in the Auror department.  Very plausible in a 19 year period, I think.

P

Fantastic!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: wolfie712 on August 03, 2007, 11:36 PM
Oh, what a fabulous transcript!  Thank you!!!  ;D

For my part, I loved book 7.  I thought the epilogue was a bit odd and out of place, but other than that, I thought the writing was excellent.  I was, of course, really sad to see Hedwig, Fred, Tonks, and Lupin die, but I knew that some of our favorite characters would have to die in the end.  I was really glad Ron and Hermione survived.  It would have been torture to lose one of them.  I wish JK Rowling would have included a scene where Harry finally gets to embrace Ginny and tell her how he feels about her.  My guess is that his love was implied and Ms. Rowling would have felt it rather trite and cliche to include it.  Still, I would have liked that scene.  I also really liked learning about Snape's history.  I had a feeling he was a good guy (there had to be a reason Dumbledore trusted him!), but I thought his story was genuine and heartwarming. 

A wonderful end to a wonderful series.  I'm just sad that it's over.  :'(

Laura  :)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on August 04, 2007, 06:26 AM
Am I the only one who thought the epilogue was just fantastic??   :phat :phat :phat

After reading the whole book with my heart in my throat and worrying over the fates of Ron and Hermione, Neville and Luna and the Weasleys (I was never of the belief that Harry would die) it wasn't until the Headmasters' portraits cheered that I started to relax and it was just such a relief to have such a lovely ending!!  I suppose at the time of reading I was just too busy cheering that Harry and Ginny ended up married with kiddies that I never paused to think the epilogue was anything but perfect!  Harry sending his kids off on the Hogwarts express was so touching and felt it just completed the circle for me from the time poor Harry was rescued by Hagrid from his life under the stairs.  And reminding his kids they had to have afternoon tea with Hagrid was just the perfect touch.

I also felt that Harry giving his son the middle name of Severus showed how much Harry has matured.  From the beginning Snape saved Harry many times but Harry would never accept that Snape had any good in him.  While Snape's motives were somewhat self-serving, I still think that for Harry to see Snape as a 'lost boy' like himself and Volemort showed real maturity on Harry's part.  And we all know that Harry is somewhat hot headed from time to time (to put it midly lol)

Still I felt the ending was just perfect.  I do see how some people could see it as a bit 'too sappy' or 'too perfect' and yes it did jump 19 years into the future but it would have taken a whole other 19 books to complete the story otherwise!  The story that we hear about of Harry's life starts from the day his life changes (when his parents died) - straight to the next part when his life changes (when he starts Hogwarts and commences his battle against Voldemort) to the end of that part of his life (when he defeated Voldemort). 

I thought as writers that is what we are supposed to do?  We don't tell the whole story of someone's life - aren't we supposed to jump in when the action starts and finish the day our MC defeats his foe, solves his mystery, overcomes the particular challenge?  I think it's a testament to the world J.K. built that we all want more, more, more!  I don't know, for me personally I thought the epilogue was just fantastic and even though she didn't owe it to us I thought it was generous of her to give it to us.  I mean I don't know that my MG that I'm currently working on will have millions of people around the world crying out at the end of the book "But who does the MC marry?" "What job did they grow up to get?" etc etc

Would be nice if they did though!! 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on August 04, 2007, 08:32 AM
Am I the only one who thought the epilogue was just fantastic??   :phat :phat :phat

...

not at all - I loved it, too!  I love things like that (Jane Austen did small ones of those in her books...movies like American Graffitt, Legally Blond, etc. - I love a glimpse into the future!)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on August 04, 2007, 01:35 PM
I concur with the minority here.  I was sooo tense throughout the whole book, and by end I had tears flowing freely, so as I read the epilogue (saccharine as it may have been) it was very satisfying to be smiling a huge smile through my tears and to imagine life going forward at Hogwarts and in the wizarding world.  I am glad it was included, and can't wait to read the encyclopedia for all the extra details that were left out.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on August 04, 2007, 03:23 PM
Okay, so it's an encyclopedia of extra details? My husband heard it was a book that picked up the years between the battle and the epilogue or something like that. I heard it was an encyclopedia of magic stuff, more or less. I'm confused! (grin) Not totally unusual for me, I must admit...

AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: buglady5 on August 04, 2007, 06:17 PM
Okay, so it's an encyclopedia of extra details? My husband heard it was a book that picked up the years between the battle and the epilogue or something like that. I heard it was an encyclopedia of magic stuff, more or less. I'm confused! (grin) Not totally unusual for me, I must admit...

AMY

Amy, I'm not sure about the subject matter myself, but I had the impression that it was sort of a fill-in-the-blanks type of book. 

I do, however, think it would be very fitting if Hermione "authored" the book.   ;D


buglady
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: MandyT on August 04, 2007, 11:26 PM
Yes, my impression was that JK was going to fill us in on the details of all the characters lives before/after the 7 years we read about in the HP books.  It may also include some other "magic stuff", but she brings it up in interviews when people mention how they want to know more about the characters, their adult careers and families, Harry's grandparents, etc. etc.  So that was my conclusion anyway.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: sunnyleo on August 06, 2007, 04:52 AM
I did something different this time - instead of READING the book, I listened to the audiobook version which I quite enjoyed (gave me time to visualize it).

My original assessment of HP5 + 6 holds for 7 also - too much exposition, too talky, plot moves inconsistently (speedwise), etc. but the series contains fantastic characters you can empathize with, snappy dialogue, and has a solid plot. I prefer the 3rd and 4th books.

I dug out my "Rowling writing template" and found it holds to be true. You truly notice it listening to the audiobook version. She's so cookie cutter in style..

----
How to write like JK Rowling:

<Walk into a new place and describe it> <some action> "<insert great dialogue to advance the plot>," said <some cooly named character> <adverb>, <some parallel action done while the character is speaking>.

<An action, but more likelky summarizing narrative and the odd editorial insight>. "<insert more dialogue>," said <another name> <adverb>, <more parallel action>.
---

Maybe Rowling will go the way of Enid Blyton? Her characters are endearing enough to last and she does deserve the success. No sour grapes. The series was great in the beginning, but found the last 3 books requiring trimming. Fewer talking battles and history lessons please...
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Toothpaste on August 06, 2007, 08:27 PM
Anybody surprised the veil didn't make a reappearance?  I was so sure that it had to mean something.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: AooH on August 06, 2007, 09:31 PM
Anybody surprised the veil didn't make a reappearance?  I was so sure that it had to mean something.

I think it actually did, though it wasn't physically in the story. When Harry and Hermione were in the graveyard, one of the stones they read spoke of death being the final enemy to be defeated.  I don't think I'm going out on too much of a limb here, because I recognized various references to Scripture in DH (as many others have) and I think it was, in a way, referring to the veil being torn at the death of Christ- when His death defeated death.  I couldn't read that part in the graveyard without being pulled back immediately to Sirius' death, and the image of the veil was very much in my mind.  Rowling has a subtle pen.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on August 07, 2007, 02:29 AM
Maybe I'm coming from the same base of religious symbolism as Rowling, but I took the veil as yet another expression of the overall theme, not as an individual item to be built towards. Death is like a veil that divides the living from the dead, and what Rowling seems to say over and over, in so many different ways, is that the dead haven't winked into nothingness, but are there on the other side, helping us in a variety of ways: their memories living in our hearts, their examples, truths we've learned from them, and yes, even their very spirits accompanying us while we're in a moment of greatest need.

At first I thought we'd return to the locked room that melted Sirius's knife, too, but I think we definitely saw the power of love in the last book, even without the clinical MOM analysis.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: laurenem6 on August 07, 2007, 05:50 PM
When Hermione is reading about the three brothers, it says that the revived love of the second brother was behind some sort of veil.  I take it to mean the separation between the living and the dead.  Even if they walk the same earth again, they are clearly divided by the veil.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Ellie on August 17, 2007, 11:34 AM
Well, apparently all of you have been done with the book for weeks now, but I've just finished my 21 hours plus of listening to it on CD.   I've listened to, rather than read, all seven HP books, so I can't go back and reread sections to figure things out.  If I could, right now I'd reread Dumbledore's death scene.  Maybe someone can help clarify my confusion about exactly why the Elder Wand was rightfully Draco Mallfoy's--because he was supposed to kill Dumbledore?  (Since he didn't actually do it, I don't see why he became the wand's rightful owner.)

As I've enjoyed the books but not been a hardcore fan, I was unprepared for how powerfully this last one affected me; I was truly moved many times, especially as Harry seemed about to die and afterwards when Dumbledore called him a "brave man" and when the headmasters/mistresses cheered.  (I agree with those who would have loved to have seen Snape in that scene, too--to have him and Harry finally look into each other's eyes with respect.)  I loved the kiss between Ron and Hermione.  It was about time! :-*

Snape's courage was admirable, but there was still way too much hatred in him to make him truly good, in my opinion.  His hatred of James and later Harry was only slightly overshadowed by his love for Lily.

I found Hermione a strong character despite her weepiness.  She was certainly a big part of the success of the mission.  Even the way she had organized the Save the House Elves group contributed to Dobby's freedom, which later resulted in her, Harry, and Ron's rescue from the Mallfoys' house.  Ginny wasn't boring to me, and I agree that it would have been nice to have seen more of her; she was one of the female characters that I imagine a lot of teenaged girls could relate to.

I would have liked some strings tied up with the Dursleys and especially with Aunt Petunia.  I liked that we glimpsed her as a girl and that we see that she and Lily were once close.

I was sad about the deaths of the various characters, but we all knew some deaths were coming.  To be honest, no truly major characters (Harry, Ron, Hermione, Hagrid, Ginny) died in this one, except for Snape (and of course, Lord V).  No offense to anyone who loved Fred, but he was the perfect Weasley to kill off, as there were basically two of him to begin with.  (I couldn't tell any diff between the twins' personalities.  Could any of you?)  Too bad about both Tonks and Lupin, but little Teddy's tragic orphan similarity to Harry made his being Harry's godson more fitting/poignant.

The whole thing certainly left me feeling like this was the end of a grand epic on the same scale as LOTR, albeit very different in many ways.  I was glad that it ended at Hogwarts where so much of the action took place.  I found the support Harry found there when he returned quite beautiful and was cheering for him along with his friends.

Hats off to JKR for her achievement!

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Anne Marie on August 17, 2007, 11:40 AM
  Maybe someone can help clarify my confusion about exactly why the Elder Wand was rightfully Draco Mallfoy's--because he was supposed to kill Dumbledore?  (Since he didn't actually do it, I don't see why he became the wand's rightful owner.)

He didn't have to kill Dumbledore--he had to defeat him.  He used expelliarmus to disarm Dumbledore of the Elder Wand, and apparently that was sufficient to make Draco the master of the Elder Wand.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Ellie on August 17, 2007, 11:43 AM
Thanks, Annemarie.  That makes sense. :)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on August 17, 2007, 01:01 PM
Expelliarmus is THE spell, isn't it?
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Anne Marie on August 17, 2007, 01:06 PM
Yeah, the one they wanted him to stop using.  Heh heh.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on August 17, 2007, 01:20 PM
Expelliarmus is THE spell, isn't it?

That is a curse that causes the wand to be expelled from a wizard/witch's hand - it is not one of the Unforgivable Curses - those are

The Cruciatus Curse. This inflicts severe physical pain on whomever it is cast upon. To effectively use the Cruciatus Curse, the witch or wizard casting the spell must have the genuine desire to cause pain. When effectively used, the curse is excruciating and has the ability to drive victims insane. As such, it is one of the three Unforgivable Curses. the Imperius Curse and the Killing Curse. (Neville's parents were driven insane when Bellatrix cursed them with this one.)

The Imperius Curse. "Imperior" (L.) meaning "to give orders, rule, hold sway," or "imperium," meaning "power to command, rule, control." The Imperius Curse. This is used to control the actions of another person, leaving that person at the mercy of the spell caster. The experience of being under the curse is described as a fantastic sense of release, until the victim starts to fight back. The curse can be fought and its hold broken, but many witches and wizards are unable to do so. Because of its very dangerous implications, the Imperius Curse is one of the three Unforgivable Curses.

The Killing Curse (aka Avada Kedavra. ) A corruption of "abracadabra" which was used as a Healing Spell to drive disease from the patient's body in the Middle Ages. Its likely source is either the Arabic "abra kadabra" (may the things be destroyed), or the Aramaic "abhadda kedhabhra" (disappear with these words). It requires a strong bit of magic behind it; the incantation alone is not enough for the spell to work. When cast effectively, Avada Kedavra kills instantaneously, producing a blinding flash of green light but leaving no mark on the victim's body. There is no way to block or counter the Killing Curse, and the only people ever to survive it are Harry Potter and Tom Riddle.

thanks to mugglenet for the above definitions!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on August 17, 2007, 03:12 PM
Er...I meant that Expelliarmus was like, "da bomb," or "the most awesome, useful spell evah," or something like that. Those intonation things that never come through no matter how hard I kick my computer, darn it!  ;)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Anne Marie on August 17, 2007, 03:22 PM
I knew what you meant, Olmue.  I think it came through fine.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: kellyr on August 17, 2007, 03:43 PM
I understood you, Olmue -- it's the one that Harry used to defeat Voldemort (twice, no less), so I got your point.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Amy Spitzley on August 17, 2007, 04:03 PM
Although Avada Kevadra gets my vote for coolest-sounding curse. (And the  one that made me giggle the most.) I'll never hear "Abracadabra!" the same way again! (grin)
AMY
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on August 17, 2007, 07:43 PM
Er...I meant that Expelliarmus was like, "da bomb," or "the most awesome, useful spell evah," or something like that. Those intonation things that never come through no matter how hard I kick my computer, darn it!  ;)

Oops! My bad... I did not understand you!   :green:  going back to my cave now... 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: KirstyAnn on August 17, 2007, 11:18 PM
Quote
Although Avada Kevadra gets my vote for coolest-sounding curse. (And the  one that made me giggle the most.) I'll never hear "Abracadabra!" the same way again! (grin)
AMY

Couldn't agree more!!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on August 18, 2007, 12:17 AM
Oh, it's okay Julia! (Although if you want to share directions for some of those "householdy" spells so I can spend my time writing instead of cleaning and stuff, that would be fine....  ;))
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Juliarts2003@yahoo.com on August 18, 2007, 07:15 AM
Oh, it's okay Julia! (Although if you want to share directions for some of those "householdy" spells so I can spend my time writing instead of cleaning and stuff, that would be fine....  ;))

try a little "scourgify"... should clean things up just fine (unfortunately, I can't get my wand to work, so I'm still scourgify-ing the muggle way   :tired:) 
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: olmue on August 18, 2007, 12:53 PM
Yeah, "scourgify" works even less for me than for Tonks. My kids have lately gotten into "evanesco," but the kitchen potions experiments don't disappear, either. Must consult Gilderoy Lockhart's books to see what we're doing wrong.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: HB on August 20, 2007, 08:53 PM
Although Avada Kevadra gets my vote for coolest-sounding curse. (And the  one that made me giggle the most.) I'll never hear "Abracadabra!" the same way again! (grin)
AMY

And I can never hear "Abracadabra" without thinking of the Bugs Bunny episode (Abraca-pocus!)
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: Michelle DP on August 22, 2007, 07:36 PM
The whole thing certainly left me feeling like this was the end of a grand epic on the same scale as LOTR, albeit very different in many ways.  I was glad that it ended at Hogwarts where so much of the action took place.  I found the support Harry found there when he returned quite beautiful and was cheering for him along with his friends.

Hats off to JKR for her achievement!



I liked that his quidditch team returned to fight with him. I loved when they all trouped out--the Order of the Pheonix, the D.A., and Harry's old quidditch team. It added such a quirky touch.
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: sdp on September 01, 2007, 07:48 PM
I read this because I was bought two copies of it. JKR is a proper hero, I don't think anyone will be anywhere near as successful as her for a long long time, but I’ve never been a huge fan so I think my reaction is perhaps overly negative.

- I don’t get Harry Potter’s character. I’m not sure if the sense of aversion I have towards him is something that I’m supposed to have or not. I can’t put my finger on it …it’s partly the way other characters hero-worship him and his reaction to that, and partly something else. I don’t know… is it deliberate?
-  I didn’t like that there wasn’t a “previously…” type recap thing at the beginning. I also didn’t like the assumption that I’d read the prior books and so would know what horcruxes, death eaters, etc. are.
- I didn’t like Hedwig dying; that scene jarred in my head and I read over it three times. I know it was necessary for the plot but it seemed so vague. The whole chapter seemed manufactured too.
- I think she left it wide open for sequels. It’s a cash cow – everyone involved will want another slice of the pie eventually.
- I didn’t like the camping stuff. I did a lot of camping in England when I was younger, just me in a tent by a lake for 2-5 days. You need all the survival stuff, food, clean water, warm clothes (it gets cold at night, even in summer) etc... Maybe I missed the bit where it was all magically explained but for me that was stretching the boundaries of plain reality a little too far.

As to what I did like, it’s all been said before so I won’t re-iterate, although I must say I loved the scene where he said goodbye to the Dursleys.

Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: CheezWeezil on September 01, 2007, 08:09 PM
There are so many subtle things from the earlier books that are tied up in books 7.  How she ever kept it all straight is nothing short of amazing.  My wife pointed out one of these:

Early in book 5 after Dudley and Harry have been attacked by the dementors, Harry has to explain to Uncle Vernon what happened.  Uncle Vernon asks what dementors are, and AUnt Petunia is the one that responds that they guard the wizard prizon Azkaban.  Harry asks here hows she knows that and she replied, "I heard that awful boy tell... her".  Naturally we all assumed she was referring to Harry's father, James.  In fact, as we found in book 7, she was talking about Severus Snape.

Another is from book 6 when Dumbledore come to collect Harry prior to his returning to Hogwarts.  He is introduced to Aunt Petunia, and Dumbledore says, "We have corresponded, of course."  We are tricked by Harry's response about the Howler, but in book 7 we find that Petunia had written to Hogwarts wanting to attend.

Very cool.

I enjoyed book 7 immensely.  I was saddened that Fred Weasley had to die though. He and George gave a lot of live to the series.

I had three particular lines in the book that made me laugh for several minutes:

1) "Accio Hagrid!"


2) In describing Bathilda Bagshot: "She's nutty as squirrel poo"


3) And Mrs. Weasley's much touted response to Bellatrix Lestrange's attack on Ginny  :dr


Loved it through and through.  I was glad it was such a long book.  As I was reading, I wouild periodically check to see how thick the remaining pages were, and was satisfied to see there aws still a lot to go.  I've read it twice, and have read the other six since reading 7 the first time.  What can I say, I like Harry Potter!
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: LindaB on September 02, 2007, 06:24 PM
I've read 7 three times now and I keep going back and re-reading passages from the others. I really love Harry as a character. He doesn't want the attention, he would prefer not to be the leader but he takes on the responsibility because it was thrust on him. I think reading the seventh book on its own doesn't give you a true idea of who Harry is - at that point, everyone has realized that the only one who will be able to end Voldemort's reign is Harry. He's the only one who has the power to win. He grew up a lot in book six and that growth shows in seven.

I watched the movies this week as well and while I enjoyed them more this time, I still think that they can't show you Harry's character growth. They are fun to watch but they have to leave out so much detail that you don't get to know Harry the way you do when you read all the books.

I wouldn't mind having more stories - maybe as his life as an Auor. We know he will live, and we know that he is happy in his later life (thank goodness after what happened his first 17 years!) but I'm sure the books will be wonderful. After re-reading the series, I am convinced Rowling is brilliant. The books are not perfect - but they are fun reads with a good mixture of humor and heart tugging scenes.

Working in a bookstore, I see people of all ages coming in for the books. It's interesting how people who wouldn't read the series before are now coming in to buy them all. And they love them. There are very few authors who fascinate such wide, diverse group.

LindaB
Title: Re: Harry Potter--Deathly Hallows discussion: SPOILERS!
Post by: AbigailW on June 03, 2011, 09:32 PM
I know this thread is ancient, but I had to add my story for posterity. I was staying in a hotel the day HPVII came out and had pre-ordered it on Amazon.com. I was so excited to read it, but when I got my package, it was empty!

My husband kindly refrained from poking fun at me, and instead told the front desk clerk that the book needed to be put back in the box by the morning.

Sure enough, 8am, it was returned in near-perfect condition.

Kudos to an author who can write a book so compelling that someone actually stole it and read it all night!