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Eclipse discussion - spoilers!

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Yes, I agree with you.  The backstory of the vampires though in dialogue went on too long.  I was also skimming through the book.  My husband thought it was funny.  "Why are you still reading the book if it's that boring?" he asked.  "Because, maybe just maybe it'll pick up."  Well it did toward the very end but then went back to the whole  "What should I do? thing which got old real fast."

I think Meyers was trying to do a whole Wuthering Heights-like thing with all three characters.  I thought Edward was too darn perfect.  I wanted some vulerablity.  And I didn't buy the whole she realizes she's in love with Jacob.  It felt out of character.  Poor Jacob.  He was one of my favorite characters but he came across as a jerk in more than one scene.

Also the reference of a werewolf  imprinting a two-year-old was a little too creepy for me to stomach.  Maybe because I have a six-year-old.

But the teens I know love this story.  The yard duties fourteen-year-old daughter borrowed my copies and loved them so much she bought her own.  I'm curious what she'll think of this book.
#31 - August 20, 2007, 05:10 PM
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I'm so relieved that many of you loved it, but I'm 100% with JustWrite and ixtumea. I don't think I have ever skimmed, yawned, and felt so frustrated by a novel.   The angsting, long boring narrative, and moralising, drove me crazy. I disliked all the characters except Alice and Charlie by the end of the book, and I don't think I could stand reading another word about Bella or Edward 

I thought it was just me - maybe I didn't 'get it', or was expecting too much after Twilight & New Moon - but my 19yr old daughter was even more scathing.

I really wanted to enjoy it, too ... 
Agreed, agreed! And her moralizing! Argggh. I felt I was being force fed the reasons to marry before sex by the world's most moralistic vampire. I just about hated Edward after this book. And that pisses me off, because I was so madly crushing on him in Twilight and New Moon, when there was some mystery about him. In this book he came off as a possessive stalker. Echh. Give me Jake any day. But actually, give me Wicked Lovely! I'm plugging your book everywhere Melissa, because too many books out there are just dull and poorly written garbage. I'm not going to name names, but I've thrown a lot of money away this summer.
#32 - August 20, 2007, 06:11 PM

Overall I enjoyed the story, but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that didn't feel the characters' actions were totally believable in this book.
I think this is the first book that she wrote from start to finish, rather than writing her favorite scenes, and then filling in the gaps.  I think that might account for some of the differences in Eclipse compared to the first two in the series.
#33 - August 21, 2007, 03:41 AM
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I FINALLY finished Eclipse.

I have to say, the book was about 400 pages too long. Whoever wondered if Meyer had an editor was thinking the same thing I was. Like the legend of the wolf? Holy crow...what was that...ten pages? I don't know because I didn't actually read it. And we've barely heard a full sentence from Jasper and all of a sudden he can't stop talking? And about himself no less? I don't buy it. Jasper wouldn't have talked that much. He would have given Bella the important details and left everything else out. At least that's what I think.

Also, Jacob drove me insane. What a jerk for threatening suicide just to get Bella to kiss him! And I agree with several other comments, Bella being in love with Jacob was unbelievable. Not once have I felt any sort of attraction for Jake through Bella. He's always been a good friend and nothing more.

Edward...on the other hand...there were a few places that I felt Meyer didn't allow him to be realistic with his reactions. I mean, not being mad at Bella for kissing Jacob? Of course, he was given some great scenes...like when he killed Victoria. Nothing like showing the true vampire there. I'm not tired of Edward. I'm not sure if I ever could be. I'm in love with him, to be quite honest!

And if Bella isn't a vampire in book four, I'll throw the book across the room. The only reason I read book three so quickly was because I was under the impression we'd finally get something. Either a) Bella would be turned or b) Bella and Edward would finally...um...you know.

But no. We got nothing.

I'm so disappointed in Eclipse. Can you tell? I will, of course, read the next one only because I love Edward and the rest of the Cullens and I need to know what happens to Bella, but please let something actually happen!
#34 - August 21, 2007, 11:32 PM
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Yes, the book would have been MUCH better if Bella and Edward had gotten to fulfill at least one of the readers fantasies.  :D  The best part was when Edward finally decided he was ready to get things heated up and Bella responds by ripping his shirt off. Yes, she accidently chips her tooth while attempting to give Edward a hickey, but it's all worth it when he undoes her...OH WAIT...that was my version! That's the one I dreamed up while they decided to go tell Charlie's they're engaged. 

This is a small point, but it bugged me. Why was Leah taking notes during the oral history? Native American's don't do that. They know the stories by heart. Having studied Native American Literature, I recall how often Indians cited incidents of white people writing down the stories and butchering them. Oral tradition is considered an art form. A good storyteller is supposed to put a bit of their own personality into the telling. This section was definately---ack.

#35 - August 22, 2007, 05:29 AM
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 08:38 AM by Elaine (aka sweetpea) »

I totally agree.  I didn't buy the scene with Edward looking on while Jacob warms Bella on in the tent.  And then they are both discussing how they feel about her and she SAYS NOTHING.  I didn't believe Bella won't at least tell them both to shut-up or have a comment or two.

Yes, Native Americans don't take notes during oral history.  Very unbelievable.

Also if there is a book four Bella should become a vampire.  But I'm wondering if the author will write that.  The whole Jacob thing at the end of the story intrigued me enough to want to read the next book.  Will he stay a wolf?  What will his reaction be to Bella once she becomes a vampiress?  The whole moral thing with Edward I think is a reflection of the author's own faith.  While reading those passages--of Bella wanting to have sex with Edward but him turning her away because he wanted them to get married first--is something our church teaches.   It's interesting how she wove that into her story.
#36 - August 22, 2007, 07:14 AM
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While reading those passages--of Bella wanting to have sex with Edward but him turning her away because he wanted them to get married first--is something our church teaches.   It's interesting how she wove that into her story.
That part made me wince a little (precisely because I'm aware of her faith, actually--I doubt I would have batted an eyelash if I didn't know).  Although the rationale was great (Edward's old-fashioned background) and I liked the role-reversal aspect of it, I couldn't help wondering whether this was the characters talking or the author talking. 
#37 - August 22, 2007, 07:49 AM

Yes, that's what I was thinking too.  I didn't like it.  I loved the whole Edward/Bella thing in the first two books and thought the moralizing got in the way of this book.  Really, would Edward say something like that?  It seemed out of character to me.
#38 - August 22, 2007, 07:59 AM
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I would have like to see Edward at least wrestle a tiny bit with the lust he claims to have for Bella. Could the references to Edward being as hard as stone be code for that? Okay, I'm probably just an :evil: old lady, reading too much into the story. I'll shut up.
#39 - August 22, 2007, 08:49 AM

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I found Edward's resistance to have sex incredibly believable for two reasons.  One, he's from a different era, and in his time, that wasn't the "done" thing, and two, I think the hesitance also comes from the same place that makes him resist turning Bella.  He doesn't want to hurt her or take something that he thinks she might not be ready to give.  Throughout the books, we've seen Edward wanting Bella to hold onto her humanity and to a certain extent, her innocence as well.  He'd never do anything to hurt her, and he doesn't trust her to know what's best for herself.  That might be irritating, but it's what we've seen from him since day one- I would have been surprised if it was any other way, because I think the way Meyer has written the sex thing is exactly consistent with Edward's character.

As far as moralizing goes, I think it's interesting that (a) Bella WANTS to have sex, and (b) the reader feels Bella's frustration that Edward won't.  He explains his justification, but it's still irritating- to Bella AND the reader.  If Meyer was really moralizing, I feel like she'd have us as readers sympathizing with the character who was choosing to wait until marriage, not the one who's frustrated that her partner wants to wait.
#40 - August 22, 2007, 09:10 AM

I would have like to see Edward at least wrestle a tiny bit with the lust he claims to have for Bella.

Oh yes, I very much agree. I made this very comment on my blog. I would have liked to see Edward conflicted more in this book. Edward cannot be that perfect. I wanted to see his weaknesses, to see him almost slip up, maybe even nic Bella's neck! At this point, I'm not really worried about Edward losing control because he's only told us he's afraid of losing control. SHOW me why we should be afraid or worried!

I found Edward's resistance to have sex incredibly believable for two reasons.  One, he's from a different era, and in his time, that wasn't the "done" thing, and two, I think the hesitance also comes from the same place that makes him resist turning Bella.  He doesn't want to hurt her or take something that he thinks she might not be ready to give. 

I can see what Jen means. I was not surprised that Edward wanted to wait to have sex with Bella because of the time he grew up in. And I believe that he wants to "do right" by Bella as far as marrying her before they do anything.

#41 - August 22, 2007, 09:20 AM
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Oh yes, I very much agree. I made this very comment on my blog. I would have liked to see Edward conflicted more in this book. Edward cannot be that perfect. I wanted to see his weaknesses, to see him almost slip up, maybe even nic Bella's neck! At this point, I'm not really worried about Edward losing control because he's only told us he's afraid of losing control. SHOW me why we should be afraid or worried

It will be interesting to see Meyer's version of the Edward POV on Twilight- I'm guessing we'll see a LOT of conflict there.
#42 - August 22, 2007, 09:40 AM

Interesting point, Jen.  I know that Edward and the rest of the clan didn't want Bella to turn into a vampire.  They didn't have the choice but she did.  It just was hard for me to believe some of those scenes.  What did you think of the tent scene with Jacob?  Personally in Twilight I LOVED the whole Edward/Bella thing.  I mean I would have wanted to have him bite me.  But in the third book I didn't feel the same chemistry. 
#43 - August 22, 2007, 11:58 AM
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What did you think of the tent scene with Jacob?  Personally in Twilight I LOVED the whole Edward/Bella thing.  I mean I would have wanted to have him bite me.  But in the third book I didn't feel the same chemistry. 

You probably meant the other Jen, huh? But I'll chime in anyway!

I felt like that scene was a bit set up. Why did they have to go into the mountains? Why couldn't they have found a house to stay at? As they were packing for the mountains, I kept wondering why the heck they were going there and not somewhere else. And I don't think it was necessary for Edward to be close to his family during the fight because with his speed, he could have reached them quickly enough from anywhere else. I don't know...the tent scene made me shudder, especially for Edward's sake. Although I did laugh at some of Jacob's dialogue.

As for the chemistry between Bella and Edward, I did feel a lot of Twilight's magic was gone from this book, mainly because Edward so often professed his devotion to her and she was a bit immature about the whole thing. Like when he showed her the ring? And how she kept running off to see Jake? You know darn well if Bella had asked Edward not to see one of his female friends and he snuck off instead to do it, he would have been painted the bad guy and we would question his loyalty. It felt like Bella was doing this to Edward  :pp when she would run off.

And one last annoyance...when did Bella get a job at Newton's Sporting Goods? Perhaps this is something I skimmed over in New Moon. But a bit aggravating...Bella apparently only works one day a month? Because she never did go back. Or get a call or anything.
#44 - August 22, 2007, 12:29 PM
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Yes, I laughed during Jacob's dialogue too.  My husband asked me what was so funny and I told him I couldn't believe the dialogue going on between Edward and Jacob.  I also couldn't believe Bella was that cold and tired that she wouldn't had said anything during that heated exchange.   I kept waiting for her to tell them both to shut-up.

I did feel for Edward watching his Bella being warmed up by Jacob.  And I liked Jacob!  Well, that is until halfway through the book then I wanted to slap him for being such a jerk.

I think Bella's job was mentioned in NEW MOON.
#45 - August 22, 2007, 01:03 PM
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And how she kept running off to see Jake? You know darn well if Bella had asked Edward not to see one of his female friends and he snuck off instead to do it, he would have been painted the bad guy and we would question his loyalty. It felt like Bella was doing this to Edward  :pp when she would run off.

True! if it were Edward ... but he wouldn't do that to her. The fact that she does it to him means she's not ready to be married to him because she doesn't take his feelings into account, and it's all about her, so ha! :pp

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

The scene in the mountain was necessary so she could set up the whole Jacob thing.

Bella got the job at Newton's in one of the other books. I can't remember which one.
#46 - August 22, 2007, 01:14 PM
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Bella got the job at Newton's in one of the other books. I can't remember which one.

I must have either forgotten or skimmed over that part. At any rate, she's not there very often, so I'm not surprised I'd forgotten about it.
#47 - August 22, 2007, 01:16 PM
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So, does anyone know how many books she plans on writing for the series?

I've only read Twilight (which I liked) and was waiting to read New Moon when it came out in paperback. But if Bella isn't a vampire by book 3 -- Eclipse -- I'm wondering it I want to keep reading the series.

I'm not that patient. :-\
#48 - August 23, 2007, 04:32 PM
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I think I know!  Today when I was buying the latest book from Ellen Hopkins, the clerk at Borders told me that Stephenie Meyers plans on having another book out.  It's suppose to be a four book series.   Plus, she wants to do Twilight over again through Edward's eyes.  Now that should be interesting! 

The clerk was really excited about Meyer's books and admitted Jacob was her favorite character too.   She hadn't read Eclipse-yet-so I didn't want to spoil it for her.  I did admit I was disappointed.  But I told her that was just me and if she loved the other two books( which she did) that she should read the next one too.  I mean, check out this discussion.  Some of us didn't like it while others did.  This whole business is very subjective.  Plus, I LOVE it when booksellers and librarians get excited about a book.
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Today when I was buying the latest book from Ellen Hopkins, the clerk at Borders told me that Stephenie Meyers plans on having another book out.  It's suppose to be a four book series.   Plus, she wants to do Twilight over again through Edward's eyes.  Now that should be interesting! 

There is going to be four books. Breaking Dawn is supposed to come out next fall. I'm hoping that's the last one so we can find out what REALLY happens. I don't know if she'll ever get to write Edward's story (Midnight Sun) but I think I'd love to read it, even if I know what happens. I love Edward.

I was disappointed with Eclipse, but Meyer obviously did something right otherwise I wouldn't be so passionate about what disappointed me or what the characters did. I mean, there were several spots where the writing could have been edited, or the characters lost their consistency, but I'm coming back for a fourth book. So it wasn't *that* bad. Also, I started re-reading Twilight to get some of that magic back! I'd love to see that Edward and Bella back in book four.
#50 - August 23, 2007, 06:48 PM
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I suppose I'll read Breaking Dawn...but I won't be all excited about it. i may just wait and get it from the library, too.
#51 - August 23, 2007, 06:55 PM

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I think there were originally 3 books, but her publisher decided to add-on/approve another one (probably because of the huge sales).

You can tell that Eclipse was originally the last book in the series because she ends it by implying that Edward and Bella get married and Bella gets changed, and Jacob is out of the picture. If that's the end of the series, I'm satisfied because I know Bella will be a vamp. But now with a new book, I'm afraid that she won't ever turn Bella. Maybe she never anticipated writing the 'Bella as a vampire' book. I think there are a lot of fans that could give her lots of suggestions on what the next book should be  :yup I guess we'll just have to wait and see what she actually does.
#52 - August 23, 2007, 07:11 PM
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Yes, the series is supposed to end with the fourth book.
#53 - August 23, 2007, 11:22 PM

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I think there were originally 3 books, but her publisher decided to add-on/approve another one (probably because of the huge sales).

I suspected this, but I can't say that I'm not disappointed.
#54 - August 25, 2007, 06:44 AM

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A lot of different opinions!  :o
I agree with bits and pieces of it. I don't know, Eclipse was AWESOME according to me, although I did
want to punch the living daylights out of Jacob throughout the whole book. It felt like he was ruining Bella and Edward's relationship...

Well, for me, the whole giving-up Bella thing worked for me. It actually made me feel sorry for Edward, and like him even more.
I guess that's because I'm still immature when thinking about these kind of things...or maybe it's because I've seen too many movies/read too many books
where the two men fight for the girl. (which is kind of cliche) It was interesting how Edward chose another option.

I can't wait for Breaking Dawn, but I agree, if Bella doesn't become a vampire, I'm going to throw it across the room. I mean, practically alll the extreme fans of Edward would DIE (no pun intended) to have that chance. (myself included)

I admit, Eclipse doesn't have the same chemistry as Twilight...but maybe it's because nothing is really that mysterious anymore. I mean, you already know
that: a.) Edward is a vampire. b.)Bella loves Edward and all sorts of mysteries that made Twilight exciting to read.






#55 - August 25, 2007, 10:54 AM

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Okay, I want to say, first, that I LOVED it.

And secondly, I REALLY didn't buy the whole I-love-Jacob-in-that-way thing.  I could sort of see it coming, and the whole time, I was hoping I was wrong.   I love Jacob, but seriously. I'm really glad Bella chose Edward, but I do agree that she's being pretty selfish--especially with the whole wedding thing.

Basically, Jacob needs to imprint on someone already--PLEASE not a two-year-old--and Edward needs to sink his teeth into Bella already.  And I'm ready for the forth book right now, and I just now finished Eclipse.  (The day after Elipse came out, I started Twilight...and got sort of addicted.)
#56 - August 26, 2007, 11:55 PM

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I just picked up Twilight about 2 weeks ago, after my daughter recommended it, and finished Eclipse last night!  I have done NOTHING productive since picking up the series! Time to get my house clean and get back to my own writing. (Although my copy of Wicked Lovely is waiting for me at the library...)

I loved the series, Twilight especially, and almost cried for Jacob at the end of Eclipse. I want to see him back. Can't wait for the 4th book.

#57 - August 31, 2007, 08:50 AM

I know, wasn't that too sad for Jacob?  Though I was disappointed in Eclipse, I will buy the next book because I'm dying to know what happens to Jacob.  Also I want to read about whether or not Bella goes through with becoming a vampire and the results of her choice.  Wouldn't that be too weird if Jacob ends up still wanting her after she is transformed?  Or what happens if she has regrets afterwards?
#58 - August 31, 2007, 11:25 AM
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Stephenie Meyer has had the classics mentioned throughout the series. I recall the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet, now Wuthering Heights has been mentioned. Maybe Bella will become a vampire and Jacob will have to kill her (or does so accidentally, even more tragic), forcing Edward to fulfill his suicide pledge. Death and unhappiness for all.

#59 - September 01, 2007, 05:19 AM

Wow, that would be interesting!  I love that idea though I think all those teens would hate to see Edward killing himself.
#60 - September 01, 2007, 01:04 PM
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