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Grammar ?

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Working on my synopsis. Would it be:         

  Teenagers, Kenny Panteria, and his girlfriend Greer Carson, tell the story of Greer’s                     kidnapping, in alternating point-of-view’s,
Or,
Point's-of-view?
Also, may I suggest a strictly grammar thread? Some people really enjoy that stuff    :poke
#1 - February 11, 2015, 06:11 AM

I'm not a grammar guru  :embarrassed2, but I'll take a stab at it for fun: points of view.

Hyphens these days aren't what they used to be--often they don't exist, so it's hard to tell if they were dropped incorrectly or through evolution. Some words that were once hyphenated get bumped in status, no hyphen.

I'd say 'points' wouldn't have an apostrophe.

Yes to having a grammar section!
#2 - February 11, 2015, 06:27 AM
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Hairaplenty, it would be "points of view." You insert hyphens when it's an adjective.
 :goodluck
#3 - February 11, 2015, 06:34 AM
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You guys seriously rock! New info for me about the hyphens!   :werd
#4 - February 11, 2015, 06:37 AM

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Teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend Greer Carson tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping, in alternating points-of-view.

No commas.

AM

#5 - February 11, 2015, 06:55 AM
BUSY-EYED DAY (Beach Lane Books, 2018)
GROUNDHUG DAY (Disney-Hyperion, 2017)
VAMPIRINA AT THE BEACH (Disney-Hyperion, 2017)
among others

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Ann Marie-thank you!          :yay
#6 - February 11, 2015, 07:33 AM

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I also noticed the commas.

My version:

Teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend Greer Carson tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping in alternating points of view.
#7 - February 11, 2015, 09:51 AM
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Yeah, I was trying to decide about that comma, Marcia, and also whether or not to move the prepositional phrase for more clarity.
#8 - February 11, 2015, 10:00 AM
BUSY-EYED DAY (Beach Lane Books, 2018)
GROUNDHUG DAY (Disney-Hyperion, 2017)
VAMPIRINA AT THE BEACH (Disney-Hyperion, 2017)
among others

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 :exactly
I agree with Marcia and Anne-Marie. The only place that might have a comma is after teenagers to stress their age but it's probably unnecessary.
Incidentally, OT: have you ever noticed the amount of typos on many signs? Particularly placing commas in appropriate places and spaces where they shouldn't be. A lot of sign-writers could do with a grammar lesson or two...or a proofreader.
Me being picky again. I just tend to notice these things more than I should. :werd
#9 - February 11, 2015, 11:22 AM

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Actually, I think there should be commas like so:

Teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend, Greer Carson, tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping, in alternating points-of-view. If he has more than one girlfriend, then don't use commas. But if he has only one girlfriend, use commas. For instance, "My Aunt Sue" if the narrator has more than one aunt vs. "My aunt, Sue," if there's only one aunt.
#10 - February 11, 2015, 02:07 PM
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If he has more than one girlfriend, then don't use commas. But if he has only one girlfriend, use commas.

That didn't occur to me at first. Debby, you're right -- that is the rule.

What I don't know is how dispensable the commas are (meaning the ones that set off the girl's name) if the sentence will almost certainly be understood without them. I doubt anyone will think Kenny probably has other girlfriends, and I like the fluidity of the sentence without commas.

As for the compound noun, whether or not a compound calls for hyphens can be a fluid thing, but going by my favorite grammar book and my dictionary, I would leave them out. My dictionary has "point of view"; hence "points of view." I think leaving out the hyphens is more true to the way you'd read the sentence aloud, also.

#11 - February 11, 2015, 02:26 PM
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The copy editor is going with this version: Teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend, Greer Carson, tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping in alternating viewpoints.

Why? "Greer Carson" is an appositive: the same thing as "girlfriend", restated and clarified. It's an adjectival phrase. Appositives always come in commas after the word they modify. Why is there no comma after Kenny Panteria? Because you don't want a comma to split your subjects. The subjects are Kenny P and his girlfriend--and they both do the action of telling in alternating viewpoints.
#12 - February 11, 2015, 02:28 PM


Also, may I suggest a strictly grammar thread?

I just started a sticky Grammar Resource thread under Writing, if anyone wants to chime in with their favorite resources. https://www.scbwi.org/boards/index.php?topic=75558.0

:)
#13 - February 11, 2015, 08:06 PM

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To put a slight twist on this sentence....

What part do you want to most emphasize? Points of view? The kidnapping? The ending of the sentence can change the emphasis.

For the original version, I like the suggestion made by HDWestlund:

"Teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend, Greer Carson, tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping in alternating points of view."

But one could also switch it around to emphasize the kidnapping and write:

"Teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend, Greer Carson, presented alternative points of view in their telling of the story of Greer’s kidnapping."

#14 - February 11, 2015, 08:25 PM

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That reminds me: when writing conversation where is it appropriate to use a comma or full stop when a character pauses between a sentence?
#15 - February 12, 2015, 03:57 AM

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Wow! My head is   :slap

This isn't the end of the sentence. The entire sentence: Teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend Greer Carson tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping in alternating points of view, in TITLE, my YA mystery/suspense.
To me it reads like a run on. It's an informational (first) sentence in my synopsis, so I don't know that I want an emphasis on any particular one area.
I thought this would be a simple answer, but it looks like opinions differ. I always thought grammar/punctuation was like math. Black and white rules   :grin3

But thanks for this stimulating conversation   :love5     :stars3
#16 - February 12, 2015, 04:32 AM

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thunderingelephants, can you give an example?
#17 - February 12, 2015, 04:34 AM

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Start with the title, etc.

In TITLE, a YA mystery/supense novel, teenagers Kenny Panteria and his girlfriend, Greer Carson, tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping in alternating viewpoints.

The description of the novel and the name of the girlfriend are both appositives. If you state the novel is YA, you can cut the word teenagers. YA implies teen protagonists. You could have points of view instead of viewpoints. That's authors choice. See which way you think it sounds better. I actually like it better without the mention that the viewpoints alternate; it could be assumed because the dual POV is clear. Consider whether it is shown later in the query. I hope this is helpful.

Oh, and grammar is like math, except that language evolves over time. The rules for appositives are pretty set in stone though.

#18 - February 12, 2015, 07:36 AM

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"Look at what I found in the shed," Mr. Woods said, laughing. "It's a pogo stick."
or another
"Well, you could stop by this evening," he suggested. "I bet there will plenty to see."
Comma or full stop in between?
#19 - February 12, 2015, 09:07 AM

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You've got it right as posted, Fiona--use a full stop.
#20 - February 12, 2015, 09:11 AM
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 :yourock
Marissa,
That's great. I am a very heavy dialogue writer (sometimes probably too much, but I that's me. I don't shut up! :meeting

One other thing: I often read in magazines that a person "smiled" a sentence. Is that right?
#21 - February 12, 2015, 09:22 AM

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One other thing: I often read in magazines that a person "smiled" a sentence. Is that right?

NO! That's wronger than wrong, and a pet peeve for many agents.
#22 - February 12, 2015, 09:26 AM
Learning to Swear in America (Bloomsbury, July 2016)
What Goes Up (Bloomsbury, 2017)
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It's a pet peeve for me too, Katie...   :smokhead  Unfortunately a lot of teachers in elementary and middle school encourage their students to use "interesting" verbs in for dialogue in creative writing assignments. I got into a bit of trouble over that when doing a school visit with some middle school kids in my town.
#23 - February 12, 2015, 09:47 AM
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I was hoping sentences like, '"I ate all the kumquats last night," smiled George' would have died a complete death by now, but if anything, they seem to be making a comeback.  :(

Marissa, I know I've said this in a few places already, but when my daughter was in 5th grade she came home with two pages of synonyms for "said" and instructions that in her assigned short story she could use the word "said" in a dialogue tag only twice per page. The rest of the time, the characters were to declare, cajole, yell, murmur, muse, caterwaul, opine, and on and on. I told her she had to do the assignment as given but that the teacher was incorrect. Which she already knew. I *longed* for an invitation to speak in that classroom, lol. It makes you wonder if the teacher reads published work. But I think what it really shows is that "said" does its job as it should: inconspicuously.
#24 - February 12, 2015, 01:42 PM
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Dews: I NEVER use it myself. Usually because I am a waffler & a third person writer. My headmistress friend also said there was no need for that kind of narration because the emotion is expressed in the preceding paragraph. They weren't her precise words since we were chatting so I hope it makes sense.
#25 - February 13, 2015, 06:12 AM

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I agree with what everybody said about the appositives. Those need to be set off by commas.
#26 - February 13, 2015, 06:24 AM
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Marcia,

Quote
Marissa, I know I've said this in a few places already, but when my daughter was in 5th grade she came home with two pages of synonyms for "said" and instructions that in her assigned short story she could use the word "said" in a dialogue tag only twice per page. The rest of the time, the characters were to declare, cajole, yell, murmur, muse, caterwaul, opine, and on and on. I told her she had to do the assignment as given but that the teacher was incorrect. Which she already knew.

This makes me want to pull out my hair. :hairpull

***

I agree with Debbie that "teenagers" is unnecessary because it is a YA novel. Also, I'd just use Kenny's and Greer's first names to reduce the wordiness.

Quote
In TITLE, a YA suspense novel, Kenny and his girlfriend, Greer, tell the story of Greer’s kidnapping in alternating viewpoints.
#27 - February 13, 2015, 06:49 AM
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Oh, woow! Very clean. Thanks so much for all this help!        :thankyou     :yay
#28 - February 13, 2015, 07:16 AM

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