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Rhyme and Meter

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:help2 I really need someone who understands rhyme and meter!  I've got a few questions.
1 If I write in anapest --+ ie - (unstressed) + (stressed) do I have to have full feet per line like --+--+ or could a line be --+--
2 Does the meter start again on each new line or does it take off from the line before?
3 Can a stanza look like:
--+--+ / --+-- / --+-- / --+--+

I naturally write in rhyme and can't actually write pb's in prose.  I didn't know about the technical side of rhyme and meter but I received a really good critique which advised me to work on it so now I'm fixing my ms's.

I've looked online but I can't find the answers to the above.

Please help!  I'm so confused!!  :help
#1 - November 10, 2015, 08:00 AM

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If that's your meter pattern for every stanza it might be fine. But it kind of looks like you're just dropping a stressed syllable.
Your first stanza will establish the meter for the rest of story. You can vary, but not so much that the reader looses the established rhythm.  I found rhymeweaver.com to have the best explanation.
RhyPiBoMo is also an excellent resource (in the spring). Angie offers a course & I think Rene LaTulippe might have a course for rhymers too.
Another great learning tool is to do critique swaps with other rhymers. Let me know if you want to do a swap - I could give more specific feedback. Or you could post on the critique part of the board - if you decide to do that let me know on this thread & I'll be sure to check it out.
#2 - November 10, 2015, 08:24 AM

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Renee's course is excellent!! I highly recommend it. Really drills you through the different rhyme and meter schemes and more. http://www.reneelatulippe.com/writing-courses/
#3 - November 10, 2015, 08:33 AM
Flowering Minds - Children's Book Review Site
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For your second question, it's typical to arrange the beats this way: 4/3, 4/3  Sometimes you'll see it 4/3, 3/4, but it's usually better to stick with 4/3 throughout. 4/3 is very common, as is 4/4 (both iambic and anapestic). Lots of other combos are also possible. For your first question, you need to understand the difference between masculine and feminine endings.

I suggest you read: http://www.dorichaconas.com/Icing%20the%20Cake%20page.htm

and this: http://learn.lexiconic.net/meter.html  (and if possible, get the whole book, called ALL THE FUN'S IN HOW YOU SAY A THING).
#4 - November 10, 2015, 08:37 AM
NED THE KNITTING PIRATE, GRIMELDA series,
CITY SHAPES, DORIS THE BOOKASAURUS, ONE SNOWY DAY, PIZZA PIG, and more...
http://www.dianamurray.com

Renee is in my crit group and she is a fantastic poet and really knows her stuff.
#5 - November 10, 2015, 08:38 AM
NED THE KNITTING PIRATE, GRIMELDA series,
CITY SHAPES, DORIS THE BOOKASAURUS, ONE SNOWY DAY, PIZZA PIG, and more...
http://www.dianamurray.com

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marla-lesage Hi thanks for your reply.  I'd love to swap!  I'm new here so not sure how private messages etc work.
#6 - November 10, 2015, 11:00 AM

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Thanks for your suggestions.  I've had a look at Renee's course but she's full until 2016.

I don't understand how a beat differs from a syllable.  Until last week I knew nothing about the technical side.

masculine/feminine endings (??!)
#7 - November 10, 2015, 11:03 AM

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Caroline, as a new member you can receive PMs but not respond to them. Once your status as new changes you will automatically get responding privileges.

Anyone wishing to swap with Caroline please keep in mind she cannot respond to your PMs and provide her with an alternate way to contact you.

 :thankyou

#8 - November 10, 2015, 11:04 AM
THIS LITTLE PIGGY (AN OWNER'S MANUAL), Aladdin PIX June 2017 :pigsnort
KUNG POW CHICKEN 1-4, Scholastic 2014 :chicken

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Caroline:

A while ago I got a copy of William Baer's Writing Metrical Poetry. It took me from knowing very little about the mechanics of poetry to getting a handle on it. I marked it up and did all of the exercises for each chapter. I learned enough from it to sell poetry to several magazines and have a rhyming picture book come close to getting accepted. It covers all the questions you raised and much more.

Plus it was incredibly enjoyable.
#9 - November 10, 2015, 11:35 AM

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Thanks JFriday I'll check it out
#10 - November 10, 2015, 11:45 AM

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Check out rhymeweaver.com. Lane Frederickson's site is WONDERFUL.
#11 - November 10, 2015, 11:54 AM
COMING: Wordy Birdy*Making a Friend*But the Bear Came Back*Knock,Knock*The Farm that Mac Built*Go Fish!*Quiet Wyatt & MORE

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Another book that I find very helpful is Poem Making by Myra Cohn Livingston.

Good luck, Vijaya
#12 - November 10, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Thanks everyone!
#13 - November 10, 2015, 12:22 PM

Thanks for your suggestions.  I've had a look at Renee's course but she's full until 2016.

I don't understand how a beat differs from a syllable.  Until last week I knew nothing about the technical side.

masculine/feminine endings (??!)

Hi Caroline. The jargon makes it sound more complicated than it really is. If you read a bit about it, and practice, you'll get it in no time.

Here's an example:

I do not like green eggs and ham.  --This is a line of iambic tetrameter. Iambic means an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed syllable. Only the stressed syllables are called "beats". This line has four beats which is called tetrameter. Also, this line has a masculine ending because it ends on a stress. It's important to note that if you read this line outside of the context of the full text, you might actually stress "not" instead of "do". But the reason we stress "do" is that the meter is established before this line and that preps the reader to pronounce it the way the author wants you to. Another thing to note (this was a big aha moment for me) is that the syllables in a poem aren't necessarily an even ba DUM ba DUM ba DUM. I mean, they can be, but sometimes even the unstressed syllables can have a little emphasis, even though they're ultimately less stressed than the syllables that count as beats. Timothy Steele explains this very well in the book I mentioned.

I hope I'm not confusing you further! You don't have to get into the technical side of things if that doesn't appeal to you. Personally, I find it helpful and interesting. But you can't let it bog you down so that you're not writing from the heart.
#14 - November 11, 2015, 06:36 AM
NED THE KNITTING PIRATE, GRIMELDA series,
CITY SHAPES, DORIS THE BOOKASAURUS, ONE SNOWY DAY, PIZZA PIG, and more...
http://www.dianamurray.com

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Thanks Diana, I found the icing on the cake link really useful.  I've started putting my ms into a grid and it's helping me hear it differently.  Your explanations make a lot of sense.  If I have too much information I do get bogged down but someone telling me the essentials makes much more sense so thank you!
#15 - November 11, 2015, 06:52 AM

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I just bought Poetry for Dummies!  :bangbreak
#16 - November 11, 2015, 07:20 AM

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Have fun with it!
#17 - November 11, 2015, 09:07 AM

Yep, the Icing article was the first one I read on the topic (nearly ten years ago) and I found it super helpful, as well. And the Dummies books are always useful!

Enjoy!
#18 - November 12, 2015, 05:06 AM
NED THE KNITTING PIRATE, GRIMELDA series,
CITY SHAPES, DORIS THE BOOKASAURUS, ONE SNOWY DAY, PIZZA PIG, and more...
http://www.dianamurray.com

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Hi Caroline. The jargon makes it sound more complicated than it really is. If you read a bit about it, and practice, you'll get it in no time.

Here's an example:

I do not like green eggs and ham.  --This is a line of iambic tetrameter. Iambic means an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed syllable. Only the stressed syllables are called "beats". This line has four beats which is called tetrameter. Also, this line has a masculine ending because it ends on a stress. It's important to note that if you read this line outside of the context of the full text, you might actually stress "not" instead of "do". But the reason we stress "do" is that the meter is established before this line and that preps the reader to pronounce it the way the author wants you to. Another thing to note (this was a big aha moment for me) is that the syllables in a poem aren't necessarily an even ba DUM ba DUM ba DUM. I mean, they can be, but sometimes even the unstressed syllables can have a little emphasis, even though they're ultimately less stressed than the syllables that count as beats. Timothy Steele explains this very well in the book I mentioned.

I hope I'm not confusing you further! You don't have to get into the technical side of things if that doesn't appeal to you. Personally, I find it helpful and interesting. But you can't let it bog you down so that you're not writing from the heart.

DianaM is so smart :) Love your explanation here!!!
#19 - November 12, 2015, 03:54 PM
'Vehicle Dreams Series' Running Press Kids
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The Sparrow and The Trees- Arbordale 2015

Aw, thanks, Sharon!  :hug
#20 - November 12, 2015, 04:41 PM
NED THE KNITTING PIRATE, GRIMELDA series,
CITY SHAPES, DORIS THE BOOKASAURUS, ONE SNOWY DAY, PIZZA PIG, and more...
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We have a thread or two on all things Rhyme and Meter here: https://www.scbwi.org/boards/index.php?topic=76959.0

I'll be double checking that the links above are all in there.
#21 - November 23, 2015, 03:46 PM

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