[vanessa-howard Posts: 12 Status: Offline Children are a heritage.]

Do any of you have strong opinions on how long is too long for picture book? I just submitted a PB manuscript to a publisher and it is over 2,500 words. I still believe it works best in a picture book format, but I wonder if the length is going to give editors pause. I imagine it like Patricia Polacco's books, with lots of words but lots of big beautiful illustrations, not just an image here and there. Should I have pitched it as an early reader?

[JodyJS Posts: 1,396 Status: Offline IT'S A FIELD TRIP, BUSY BUS! Preorder now! WWW]

Hi Vanessa,

My intel is that PBs around 400 words are in fashion these days. I love some of the longer (earlier) PBs, though, and hope they make a comeback. As to pitching it as an early reader, your word count is very long, and the words in early readers need to be written for kids just learning to sound out words. Based on what you've said, maybe a chapter book format would work. Good luck!

Jody

[vanessa-howard Posts: 12 Status: Offline Children are a heritage.]

Thanks for the reply. I think you're right. I haven't imagined it as a chapter book, but I think it could definitely work that way. I hope the publisher who now has it doesn't dismiss it out of hand. This publisher does have a number of books like this in its catalog - longer-format, educational, picture books. Still hoping!

[JodyJS Posts: 1,396 Status: Offline IT'S A FIELD TRIP, BUSY BUS! Preorder now! WWW]

Absolutely! Never say never! Good luck!

[dinalapomy101 Posts: 2,156 Status: Offline Happy writing to all! WWW]

Hi Vanessa -- I think that when you query your 2500-word picture book, if you use Patricia P. as a comp and the other longer PBs that the publisher has published, it will show that you are aware of its length and that it has a certain place in the market.

But if the publishers give you rejections with feedback that they are looking for shorter PBs, and you are open to revising it as an illustrated chapter book, then a revision for that angle might be worth a shot.

Good luck!

[Verla Kay Posts: 5,872 Status: Offline Invite Verla Kay to speak in your area WWW]

Yes, to what everyone else has already said. All of the editors I've spoken with and heard speak in the past couple of years are looking for Picture Book texts under 500 words. I agree that an early chapter book might be a better format for your manuscript. Good luck!

[Schriscoe Posts: 2,739 Status: Offline www.sharonchriscoebooks.com WWW]

  You have already gotten great advice here.

My only additional advice is to reread your PB very closely. Is the longer word count necessary? Are there words there that could be shown by the illustrations? Are you showing vs. telling? Have you had CPs read it and see if there is room for cuts?

 

[Kell Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline On the other hand WWW]

Is it nonfiction or fiction? At that length, fiction would be more like a chapter book than a picture book. For nonfiction, you could definitely find comparable titles that are intended for elementary school children, grades 3 and up.

[Debbie Vilardi Posts: 6,330 Status: Offline Language is so cool! WWW]

Seconding Schriscoe and adding that there are places on these boards where you can seek a critique or critique partners if you haven't done so before now. Sometimes it's hard for us to see our own extra words. Also, have you created a 32 or 40 page dummy of the book. (Please note 40 pagers are harder for companies to market because they are more expensive to produce and therefore to buy in stores.) Meanwhile, all submissions are something of a shot in the dark. So good luck with it.

[susan-hughes1 Posts: 65 Status: Offline Author, critiquer, editor, story coach WWW]

As everyone else has mentioned 2500 is very long for a picture book, even for a 40-page picture book. Sometimes they are more flexible with informational picture books but even those rarely go over 1300 or so, at 40 pages. Do consider revising it as a chapter book -- I've done this twice, successfully, with longer picture book manuscripts at the suggestion of editors and have ended up selling them as chapter books -- but remember that your picture book manuscript would have been read by adults and chapter books are more often read by children. This'll mean -- you guessed it! -- having a good hard look at vocabulary, sentence flow, and so on -- and you'll likely want to add in a subplot and lengthen the story overall. But wow, will you have fun!! Good luck!

[robyn.campbell Posts: 13 Status: Offline I love kids' books!]

Oh, my. That is way too long. But how about a chapter book? Anything over 500 words these days is too long. I'm sure that's what everyone else has said too. 

[chrisstevenson Posts: 2 Status: Offline I love kids' books!]

This is very useful info. I'm a newcomer to PBs, and I believe I've made a mistake already. I have a 1,600-word non-fiction/story-type picture book, or what I thought might be a PB. What is a chapter book, or what type of book would I generally have here at this length? It's a tiny, tiny bit technical, called The Mysteries of the Ranch La Brea Tar Pits. I guess that's an education story?

[Marissa Doyle Posts: 3,731 Status: Offline Charles Bewitched: out now! WWW]

You might want to spend some time going back and reading threads to bring yourself a little more up to speed--try the Chapter Book board (https://www.scbwi.org/boards/index.php?board=243.0) and Non-Fiction board (https://www.scbwi.org/boards/index.php?board=243.0) as well as topics her on the Picture Book board.

[chrisstevenson Posts: 2 Status: Offline I love kids' books!]

Thanks, I'm on my way there.

[Debbie Vilardi Posts: 6,330 Status: Offline Language is so cool! WWW]

Chris, it's also a good idea to hit the book store and library and find books like the ones you've written or want to write. You can sometimes use Amazon's concordance or Ren Learning (http://www.arbookfind.com/default.aspx) to get a word count for each book. This will help you make sure yours fits. Use recent books, published within the last three years, for the best results. Older books may have met different standards than what's coming out today.